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	<title>Comments on: The Wood Bison Discovery Story</title>
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	<description>for Bigfoot, Loch Ness, and More</description>
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		<title>By: Tamarack</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/wood-bison/comment-page-1/#comment-45141</link>
		<dc:creator>Tamarack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 18:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/wood-bison/#comment-45141</guid>
		<description>How much of what we are told by &quot;officials&quot; can we really believe or consider to be true?

If in 1940 &quot;when the last animals were officially declared extinct&quot; this obviously was not the case.

I either read or was told some time ago that the bison and the elk both had their home range on the Great Plains. As both were also hunted in great numbers the elk successfully transitioned to the mountains while the bison did not. Do we know this for certain?

However, even the elk were &quot;officially&quot; reduced to a total number of &quot;approximately 12&quot; in 1922 - could this have even been possible? Apparently the &quot;officials&quot; have always thought that they know all there is to be known, but that is ok, it gives the cryptozoologists a job.

We now have, and have had for some time two distinct &quot;types&quot; of elk, the Olympic Elk (sometimes called Roosevelt Elk) and the Rockie Mountain Elk. I think it highly improbable if not genetically impossible for these two different strains to have developed in such a short span of time let alone from only approximately 12 animals.

How many of the Cervidae family interbreed even though they do share the same territories?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How much of what we are told by &#8220;officials&#8221; can we really believe or consider to be true?</p>
<p>If in 1940 &#8220;when the last animals were officially declared extinct&#8221; this obviously was not the case.</p>
<p>I either read or was told some time ago that the bison and the elk both had their home range on the Great Plains. As both were also hunted in great numbers the elk successfully transitioned to the mountains while the bison did not. Do we know this for certain?</p>
<p>However, even the elk were &#8220;officially&#8221; reduced to a total number of &#8220;approximately 12&#8243; in 1922 &#8211; could this have even been possible? Apparently the &#8220;officials&#8221; have always thought that they know all there is to be known, but that is ok, it gives the cryptozoologists a job.</p>
<p>We now have, and have had for some time two distinct &#8220;types&#8221; of elk, the Olympic Elk (sometimes called Roosevelt Elk) and the Rockie Mountain Elk. I think it highly improbable if not genetically impossible for these two different strains to have developed in such a short span of time let alone from only approximately 12 animals.</p>
<p>How many of the Cervidae family interbreed even though they do share the same territories?</p>
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		<title>By: DWA</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/wood-bison/comment-page-1/#comment-45140</link>
		<dc:creator>DWA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:57:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/wood-bison/#comment-45140</guid>
		<description>Answered my own question, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=game.restoration&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Answered my own question, <a href="http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=game.restoration" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: DWA</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/wood-bison/comment-page-1/#comment-45139</link>
		<dc:creator>DWA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:21:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>A passage in the Anchorage paper snippet just caught my eye.

&quot;Historically ranged throughout Alaska...&quot;

I sure didn&#039;t know that.  (Arctic included?)  I thought that prior bison introductions (like plains bison to Wrangell-St. Elias) were your typical exotic game intros, not an effort to reestablish something that had been there before.

Anyone know anything more about this?

(Thanks to aspenparkland for his informative link.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A passage in the Anchorage paper snippet just caught my eye.</p>
<p>&#8220;Historically ranged throughout Alaska&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I sure didn&#8217;t know that.  (Arctic included?)  I thought that prior bison introductions (like plains bison to Wrangell-St. Elias) were your typical exotic game intros, not an effort to reestablish something that had been there before.</p>
<p>Anyone know anything more about this?</p>
<p>(Thanks to aspenparkland for his informative link.)</p>
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		<title>By: aspenparkland</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/wood-bison/comment-page-1/#comment-45138</link>
		<dc:creator>aspenparkland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 06:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The best place to see Wood Bison is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pc.gc.ca/pn-np/ab/elkisland/natcul/natcul1bii_E.asp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Elk Island National Park&lt;/a&gt;, a half hour drive east of Edmonton.

The Wood Bison being reintroduced in Alaska come from the park.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The best place to see Wood Bison is <a href="http://www.pc.gc.ca/pn-np/ab/elkisland/natcul/natcul1bii_E.asp" rel="nofollow">Elk Island National Park</a>, a half hour drive east of Edmonton.</p>
<p>The Wood Bison being reintroduced in Alaska come from the park.</p>
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		<title>By: mystery_man</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/wood-bison/comment-page-1/#comment-45137</link>
		<dc:creator>mystery_man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 03:43:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/wood-bison/#comment-45137</guid>
		<description>I should also add that the examples I listed are by no means exhaustive. Many different species of animal can interbreed. There is even such a thing as intergeneric hybridization (interbreeding between two different Genera).

In short, the definition of species as two animals that cannot interbreed is inaccurate and old fashioned. It&#039;s much more malleable than that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should also add that the examples I listed are by no means exhaustive. Many different species of animal can interbreed. There is even such a thing as intergeneric hybridization (interbreeding between two different Genera).</p>
<p>In short, the definition of species as two animals that cannot interbreed is inaccurate and old fashioned. It&#8217;s much more malleable than that.</p>
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		<title>By: mystery_man</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/wood-bison/comment-page-1/#comment-45136</link>
		<dc:creator>mystery_man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 03:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/wood-bison/#comment-45136</guid>
		<description>DWA- Right. Commonly different closely related species CAN interbreed just fine, and it is usually geographical isolation and differing habitats, as well as differing mating habits, that usually prevent them from doing so. It&#039;s just that the offspring of such interbreeding are not typically able to reproduce.

sschaper- The definition of &quot;species&quot; is complicated, debatable, and goes beyond just a species ability to interbreed with another. Taxonomy is a very complex thing.

Hybridization can happen across species just fine and it doesn&#039;t mean they should be classified as &quot;breeds&quot; or subspecies. Some good examples of creatures that can interbreed, but which are quite obviously distinct species are the wolf and the domestic dog, in fact any species of Canidae (whose offspring are even fertile), and just about every species of Ursidae (bears) except a very few. Also, many big cat species can interbreed just fine, although they often produce infertile offspring. Would you say that any of these are not distinct species because they are able to interbreed? Taxonomy is based on more than a creature&#039;s ability to hybridize with other species.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DWA- Right. Commonly different closely related species CAN interbreed just fine, and it is usually geographical isolation and differing habitats, as well as differing mating habits, that usually prevent them from doing so. It&#8217;s just that the offspring of such interbreeding are not typically able to reproduce.</p>
<p>sschaper- The definition of &#8220;species&#8221; is complicated, debatable, and goes beyond just a species ability to interbreed with another. Taxonomy is a very complex thing.</p>
<p>Hybridization can happen across species just fine and it doesn&#8217;t mean they should be classified as &#8220;breeds&#8221; or subspecies. Some good examples of creatures that can interbreed, but which are quite obviously distinct species are the wolf and the domestic dog, in fact any species of Canidae (whose offspring are even fertile), and just about every species of Ursidae (bears) except a very few. Also, many big cat species can interbreed just fine, although they often produce infertile offspring. Would you say that any of these are not distinct species because they are able to interbreed? Taxonomy is based on more than a creature&#8217;s ability to hybridize with other species.</p>
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		<title>By: DWA</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/wood-bison/comment-page-1/#comment-45135</link>
		<dc:creator>DWA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This is sort of anlaogous to the sasquatch, but not exactly, that is, if I understand properly.

Apparently the last herd of wood bison were in an area remote enough that they simply weren&#039;t seen.

Anecdotal reports make it pretty clear that - if they aren&#039;t the result of an unprecedented web of lies or availability of great drugs -  LOTS of people are seeing sasquatch, a lot of them right on their property, many looking into their windows.

The difference, sounds to me, shows how blind science can be to something if it wants to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is sort of anlaogous to the sasquatch, but not exactly, that is, if I understand properly.</p>
<p>Apparently the last herd of wood bison were in an area remote enough that they simply weren&#8217;t seen.</p>
<p>Anecdotal reports make it pretty clear that &#8211; if they aren&#8217;t the result of an unprecedented web of lies or availability of great drugs &#8211;  LOTS of people are seeing sasquatch, a lot of them right on their property, many looking into their windows.</p>
<p>The difference, sounds to me, shows how blind science can be to something if it wants to be.</p>
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		<title>By: CamperGuy</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/wood-bison/comment-page-1/#comment-45134</link>
		<dc:creator>CamperGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:14:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I easily see the point of a herd of bison being undetected.

   Very large mammal roaming about in daylight not trying to hide or be stealthy and is not rediscovered for almost two decades.

   It underscores the point if this can be overlooked then what else can be?

   Didn&#039;t even know there was a wood bison. Thanks for sharing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I easily see the point of a herd of bison being undetected.</p>
<p>   Very large mammal roaming about in daylight not trying to hide or be stealthy and is not rediscovered for almost two decades.</p>
<p>   It underscores the point if this can be overlooked then what else can be?</p>
<p>   Didn&#8217;t even know there was a wood bison. Thanks for sharing.</p>
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		<title>By: DWA</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/wood-bison/comment-page-1/#comment-45133</link>
		<dc:creator>DWA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:15:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>sschaper says:  &quot;Calling them separate species rather than distinct breeds is strange to me, since not only can they interbreed, they interbreed just fine with all other bovines &quot;

I think it&#039;s been historically presumed that separate species can&#039;t interbreed.  In fact, though, we&#039;ve known they can for a long time (tigons and ligers; mules, from horses and donkeys; and, yes, beefalo).  The red wolf nearly drove itself extinct breeding with coyotes.  The eastern coyote is said to have an infusion of wolf genes.

I think that species that are closely related CAN interbreed; it&#039;s just that in nature, they tend not to, either because of no range overlap or different social structures.  But they can do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sschaper says:  &#8220;Calling them separate species rather than distinct breeds is strange to me, since not only can they interbreed, they interbreed just fine with all other bovines &#8221;</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s been historically presumed that separate species can&#8217;t interbreed.  In fact, though, we&#8217;ve known they can for a long time (tigons and ligers; mules, from horses and donkeys; and, yes, beefalo).  The red wolf nearly drove itself extinct breeding with coyotes.  The eastern coyote is said to have an infusion of wolf genes.</p>
<p>I think that species that are closely related CAN interbreed; it&#8217;s just that in nature, they tend not to, either because of no range overlap or different social structures.  But they can do it.</p>
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		<title>By: Amdusias</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/wood-bison/comment-page-1/#comment-45132</link>
		<dc:creator>Amdusias</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 18:23:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[quote]Yes, there may be some dispute with my elevating the wood bison to species status, as the debate is ongoing, and the general notion is it is merely a subspecies of the plains bison. But I find that neither here nor there, as the differences between the wood and plains animals are distinctive and the wood bison went undetected, which is the point of the story. [/quote]

1. 1940 - 1957 is &quot;undetected&quot; for only 17 years, which is different than &quot;unproven&quot; for 200 years by a wide shot, I would say.

2. I am very skeptical of &quot;undetected&quot;. I would never have come accross these bison and said to my mate, &quot;You know lovie, for a plains bison that beast really should have more chap hair on the front legs!&quot;  For this to be an analogous argument, there would have to be another 300lb ape in the Pacific Northwest for us to be assuming is NOT a bigfoot....only to find out later...that some of them are.

Now if this is a stronger arguement than I think it is, then at least there is some great news here. All we have to do is chart the places in the Pacific Northwest that are 100 miles from the nearest road, which would reduce the area we need to search, photo-trap and survey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[quote]Yes, there may be some dispute with my elevating the wood bison to species status, as the debate is ongoing, and the general notion is it is merely a subspecies of the plains bison. But I find that neither here nor there, as the differences between the wood and plains animals are distinctive and the wood bison went undetected, which is the point of the story. [/quote]</p>
<p>1. 1940 &#8211; 1957 is &#8220;undetected&#8221; for only 17 years, which is different than &#8220;unproven&#8221; for 200 years by a wide shot, I would say.</p>
<p>2. I am very skeptical of &#8220;undetected&#8221;. I would never have come accross these bison and said to my mate, &#8220;You know lovie, for a plains bison that beast really should have more chap hair on the front legs!&#8221;  For this to be an analogous argument, there would have to be another 300lb ape in the Pacific Northwest for us to be assuming is NOT a bigfoot&#8230;.only to find out later&#8230;that some of them are.</p>
<p>Now if this is a stronger arguement than I think it is, then at least there is some great news here. All we have to do is chart the places in the Pacific Northwest that are 100 miles from the nearest road, which would reduce the area we need to search, photo-trap and survey.</p>
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