People today are too afraid to accept that a creature like this could possibly exist because they know it would completely disprove the theory of evolution and the time gap of millions of years between supposedly “prehistoric” and “extinct” creatures.

Again, Thanks

I’d at least keep an open mind to what he has to say until any of you can interview the man yourself and determine he has no integrity and no field experience.

When I first looked at the photos my reaction was like Carumba’s – “appears to be that of 2 separate wake halves colliding which have originated from 2 different boats, hence the dark shadows in the crests and the rolling turmoil.”

Is it possible that the green ridged humps you saw were actually large fish which were coincidentally in the area, lurking just under the surface, and only made visible by the actions of the arriving waves?

Next, there needs to be more than a dozen or so of them in the wild to be a successful and sustainable species. Your analogy of endangered species and those in zoos is invalid as those animals are protected and get assistance from humans to propagate. The rare and endangered animals in the wild that are barely sustaining themselves number in the hundreds. The lake is big, but not large enough to support a decent number of giant monsters…not in the numbers to sustain themselves…which means having plenty of non-related animals for the genetic diversity needed.

I too have an open mind, but when science proves that they can’t exist, I take value in that. Your analogy of the ox also bears no weight on this discussion. There is nothing in science that says such an ox cannot exist, unlike Ogopogo. No one has ever claimed that the Saola looked or did anything that was scientifically impossible or improbable. It has four hooves and two horns…just what you would expect from such a creature. Again, if Ogopogo were a mammal, then there would have to be a decent number of them. They would come up for air a LOT. The lake is big, but not big enough to hide a group of large mammals on a highly traveled lake. Oh, and then there is a fact that mammals don’t undulate up and down in a serpentine manner to produce several humps over nearly 30 feet. Sorry, but it is a scientific fact. Water going mammals flap their tails up and down to move through the water, not in an up and down, undulating, serpentine manner. All other water going vertebrates such as fish and reptiles undulate from side to side in a serpentine manner. Its a scientific fact. It is the most efficient manner of travel.

I’m not saying I’m right and everyone else is wrong…just mistaken. People go to these places to see some sort of creature of legend. They expect to see it. So when they see something they don’t understand or recognize, they automatically assume that it had to be the giant lake monster of legend.

I have an open mind to all things possible….but I don’t hold things in too high of a regard if they can be proven to be scientifically and/or biologically impossible. There are laws in nature for all mammals, fish, birds, reptiles, insects, etc.

Again, I challenge you or anyone else to share with us all any creature that a vertebrate, large, long and undulates up and down to move through the water. As it has never happened in nature, I’m not gonna hold me breath waiting.

“And you refuse to listen to reason of logic and science.”

1. Not all all. I prefer to keep and open mind that something new will be discovered that will (again) break the rules, or at least add an exciting new dimension to our understanding of the biological sciences. You are the one who is being closed-minded here.

“It is a scientific FACT that this is an ineffective form of locomotion through water. Again, there are NO large, long water going creatures now or ever that move as such. Of the creatures that do, they are only water going mammals.”

2. And how do you know that Ogopogo is not a yet-to-be-discovered species of large, lake-dwelling mammal?

“For a creature to produce three to four humps, it would have to be long, like a snake. Do snakes undulate up and down? Do any reptiles swimming do so for that matter? NOPE… Do any fish move as such and show multiple humps? NOPE…”

3. In March 2001, John Kirk, President of the British Columbia Scientific Cryptozoology Club showed me some footage he took at Lake Oganagan of a long, serpentine creature moving rapidly along the surface of the lake in a serpentine (undulating) motion. The creature was absolutely huge and could not be mistaken for any other (known) living creature in the lake. This also corroborates countless eye-witness accounts that reported observing the animal (many at very close range) moving through the water in an identical fashion. Now, you can dismiss every eye-witness account based on your own understanding of “logic and science.”

“Next scientific fact for ya… If Ogopogo were a mammal or reptile of any kind, then they would have to make frequent trips up for air, therefore increasing the chance and likelihood of being seen by people on such a highly traveled lake. Also, both mammals and reptiles would make trips to land. Also increasing the likelihood of being seen. It would also dictate that there would be several of them as there would need to be for a stable, sustainable population.”

4. And once again, you ignore those reports of the animal surfacing to breath. Many reports (and film footage) have shown that the animals surface and move along with only their heads exposed. Do you think they might be replenishing their oxygen supply? And yes, land encounters have been reported.

“Look, believe in Ogopogo if you want….”

5. Just being open minded.

“.. but all we know about science and biology dictate that such a creature does not exist.”

6. Really? And what if the duck-billed platypus had remain a rare, cryptozoological enigma? When platypuses were first sent back to Europe from Australia, they were thought to be fakes, a hoax manufactured by a clever Chinese taxidermist. European scientists didn’t believe that the platypuses’ traits could all exist within one animal. Think about it. here is an animal about the size of a domestic cat, and is classified as a mammal because the mothers produce milk for their young. However, they also lay eggs, and one of only two mammals, monotremes, do that. And, the platypus combine traits that normally don’t go together, a bill like a duck, tail like a beaver, poison like a snake, eggs like a turtle and the milk that makes it a mammal. Plus the poison in its rear spurs can kill a dog. If such a detailed account came (first) from the aboriginal people, who then passed it on to European settlers, who then only reported this creature with the occasional photograph or shaky film footage decades later, would you still stand by the “rules of science and biology?” The platypus was not the first creature to break the “rules of science and biology,” and will probably not be the last.

“Sorry bud, the likelihood of “Ogopogo” breaking the hard fastened rules/laws of science and biology are slim to none….as it would break all the rules.”

7. You mean, like the Saola, or Vu Quang ox, also known as the Asian unicorn? What if such an animal only been known by odd reports and photographs? It was described by the locals (to western explorers) as possessing haf-meter-long horns that curved backwards, and possessed flaps of skin on each side of their muzzles which the animal used to secret a powerful scent from large glands to mark their territory. Would you have also dismissed such reports because the unique physical features of this animal broke the “rules of science and biology.”

“So yeah… Why hasn’t the video been released? What is the point or purpose of holding out? Ironing out the special effects?”

8. So now you are suggesting that we are being deliberately deceitful?

“A large, water going mystery creature could only feasibly exist in a very large body of water, such as an ocean.”

9. Do you have ANY idea how big Lake Okanagan is? The lake is 135KMs long, 4-5 KM wide and up to 232 feet deep. Quite big enough for even a modest population of large lake dwelling creatures I would think.

“There would also be quite a few of them to be sustainable.”

10. How many do you think? It may only need a dozen or less of them to propagate the species, going on what we know of rare (known) species of animals today, both in captivity and in the wild.

“People are seeing something that isn’t there due to miss-identification.”

10. So, everybody else is wrong and you are right?

“Again, all of this circular talk and “reporting” without proof amounts to nothing…no conclusion. The very fact that you are getting defensive proves my point that you expected everyone to just take your story and pic of a wake as proof there was some huge creature in the water splashing around and undulating in and out of the water in such a way that biology proves to be impossible.”

11. I merely reported my observations, that’s it. And I have been more than patient in answering all your questions. However, as you are a firm DISBELIEVER in Ogopogo, one can only speculate as to WHY you are even on this forum in the first place?

I will now consider this exchange closed. Thank you.

Look, believe in Ogopogo if you want, but all we know about science and biology dictate that such a creature does not exist. That it could not exist.Kahil Nettleton

Boy you sure got out of bed via the grumpy scoftical side, didn’t you Kahil?