Comments on: Cougar Killed In Louisiana

By: mystery_man

mystery_man — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 23:10:02 +0000

Alligator- Yes, that’s exactly what I was getting at in my post above yours, thank you for adding some more elaboration. That is totally correct and I was trying to get across the same point, that these things fluctuate and are not static. Ecology can be dynamic and is constantly in flux. It just seems like a bare year for acorns to me at this point, nothing to start worrying about. I agree that the articles on it sound a bit alarmist and that we should not necessarily assign a trend to it at this point in time.

It is definitely not always clear why some of these things happen or what effects they are likely to have. The dynamics of an ecology’s ability to to demonstrate plasticity and adaptability or lack thereof is very interesting for me. It is not always clear cut. Habitats have bounced back from drastic alterations in ecology, while sometimes a seemingly small change can wreak havoc.

I think it is much too early to tell what is going on with the acorns of what the effects might be. For now, it just sounds like a natural cycle.

By: Alligator

Alligator — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:58:29 +0000

We don’t have an abundance of acorns in Missouri this year, but the pecans, walnuts and hickory nuts more than made up for it. We’ve cracked hundreds of pounds of them and there are still plenty to pick up in the yard. Last year we had plenty of acorns and few of the other nuts. Too many people are wanting to assign a trend to this phenomenon. I remember cycles of this since type I was a kid in the 1960s. If you check historical records going back to the late 18th and early 19th century, you find cycles in mast production before any industrialization. Nature just does that. It is not static and sometimes the phraseology “balance of nature” leads people to believe there is perfect equilibrium all the time and that only humans can tip that balance. Hard science shows that is not true. There has always been some fluctuation and variation. And irrespective of current thinking on global climate change, we don’t fully understand why all these things happen when they do. One year an oak will produce huge quantities of acorns, and the next under seemingly the same growing conditions, it won’t. Arborists and botanist make educated guesses about why that happens, but they are not really sure.

Cougar populations west of the Rockies have reached saturation levels. They are now following the river systems to the only territory open for expansion – the east. There is a pincher movement in cougars. One is from the Black Hills and Badlands of the Dakotas moving towards Minnesota, Iowa and Wisconsin. The other is from the Texas Panhandle and Big Bend region moving across the Big Thicket and into Louisiana and Arkansas. Fish and Game officials outside “recognized” cougar range are simply going to play like the three monkeys “hear no cougar, see no cougar, speak no cougar”.

One – This way they avoid having to develop a cougar management/recovery plan.

Two – They keep people from freaking out and organizing cougar hunts to “protect” livestock and the populace.

Three – They don’t get heat from over reactive politicians who might want to force conservation agencies to do something stupid.

Just be quiet, sit back and let nature take its course. That’s the operating procedure. Don’t lie, just minimize the probabilities. When it becomes completely undeniable that there is a viable breeding population in the state, then it will be easier to deal with it and gradually more people will have gotten used to the idea of cougars being around.

I saw the same exact pattern firsthand with black bears in Arkansas, Missouri and Oklahoma. Arkansas now has about 4,000 animals and a short bear hunting season. The populations in eastern Oklahoma and southern Missouri are clearly growing and expanding their range.

They are on their way to the woods near you, if they are not already there.

By: mystery_man

mystery_man — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 11:48:58 +0000

Jeremy_Wells- Also, the acorn shortage seems to be happening on the East Coast, not from Texas to Oklahoma. That might be another reason you haven’t noticed anything in your travels.

By: mystery_man

mystery_man — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 11:36:11 +0000

Jeremy_Wells- I hadn’t heard of any acorn shortage either, which is pretty weird since I’m usually pretty on top of this kind of stuff. Anyway if you want to read more about it, just Google Acorn Shortage and you might get some idea of what coelacanth1938 was talking about. Pages and pages of articles on it. It seems like a pretty recent phenomena starting from this year so that might be why you haven’t noticed anything.

The tone of the articles concerning this problem mostly seem a bit alarmist to me. Plants can go through bare cycles and acorn output (any plant for that matter) isn’t static, it can fluctuate depending on a range of factors. If the phenomena continues, I’d worry, but for now it just seems like a bare year.

Anyway, check it out and see what you think.

By: sschaper

sschaper — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 05:11:26 +0000

The cougars are reexpanding into all of their former range. They wouldn’t be in cities and towns if they weren’t crowded out by other cougars in more remote areas. They aren’t remotely going extinct.

h-lib, try looking at North America with Google Earth sometime. I have a feeling you might be enlightened.

By: EvoSchandor

EvoSchandor — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 02:39:28 +0000

corrick -
That’s why I specifically said “feline” and not cougar or mountain lion. Did it look like a cougar? Yes, but I’m smart enough to realize that doesn’t mean it was one. Melanistic leopard? Possibly, and if I had to narrow it down to “known” animals, that would be my first choice (or possibly jaguar) but it wouldn’t accurately describe what I saw. Bobcat? No chance – I’ve seen plenty of bobcat and they don’t look anything like a cougar in size or appearance at all. Dog? No again – this wasn’t a quick, corner-of-the-eye glimpse – I had a good look at this animal and it was a feline. Giant housecat? I suppose it could be but, in my opinion, 8′ long Giant Housecats are even less believable than black cougars. As for being “dawn or dusk”, this was at least an hour or so before dawn – the only light was from my high-beam headlights. At the range this animal was at, that’s the equivalent of shining two powerful spotlights on it – that doesn’t hinder or confuse observation, it helps. As for being mistaken about the color – I see deer (which have a very similiar color range to cougars) almost every time I’m out driving at night, sometimes in the fields along the roads sometimes crossing the road. Not once, in 40 plus years, have I ever thought I saw a black deer. I’ve seen tan, reddish tan, greyish tan, darker, lighter, you name it – but not black. Regardless, what I saw may not “technically” or “scientifically” be a black cougar but that’s exactly what it looked like. And that’s all I’m claiming – not what is was, but what it looked like.

By: hudgeliberal

hudgeliberal — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:39:16 +0000

I dont believe for a minute that killing this cat was a last resort,notice the guy proudly posing with the animal in the back of the truck,I bet the guys is still on a high. If the tranq gun didnt work,then someone obviously doesnt know how to do their job right. I have a sneaky feeling that instead of last option..killing this animal was the first. I can understand the fear of kids being around and such but answer me this..where are these animals supposed to go when we destroy their habitat by pouring concrete over every inch of land we can? We humans deserve what is coming to us. We have destroyed this once beautiful world and in doing so are limiting our time on this earth. Only one question. Why is that so hard for some to see? Are we just that heartless and greedy? I guess so….

By: whiteriverfisherman

whiteriverfisherman — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 17:12:27 +0000

corrick, They are there (whatever they are) and they are most definitely black. Perhaps my prediction is off but the frequency of eye witness reports from very reliable sources seems to suggest it will be sooner than later. Not trying cause any tension here but there are big black cats alive and well in North America. I never said they were mountain lions

By: corrick

corrick — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:13:27 +0000

EvoSchandor
I don’t doubt for one moment that you think you saw a large BLACK cat. Nor do I doubt you wouldn’t pass any lie detector test on that subject. However, eyes are not cameras and the brain is not a video recorder, which is why “eyewitness testimony” ranks at the bottom of the scientific proof food chain.
Think it’s worth noting your sighting took place “while delivering newspapers in northern Indiana early one morning.” As I mentioned earlier, dawn and dusk are particularly tricky times for accuracy in sightings.
Again, I don’t doubt you sincerely believe you saw a large black cat that morning. Melanistic bobcat? Escaped melanistic leopard? Large feral black dog? Giant black housecat? Something unknown? No one will ever know for certain. However, all existing scientific proof we have indicates with about 99.99% accuracy that what you did NOT see was a BLACK Puma concolor.

By: EvoSchandor

EvoSchandor — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 03:52:44 +0000

I understand black mountain lions have never been verified and there supposedly has never been one killed or caught. But I do know that a couple of years ago while delivering newspapers in northern Indiana early one morning, a large black (and I mean jet-black – not dark brown, not dark gray) feline walked slowly across the road in front of my car. It was at least 4 ft. long (not counting the tail, which was at least another 3.5 or 4 ft) I was on a dirt road running through a large swampy area and wasn’t driving very fast. When I saw it, I immediately stopped and watched it cross not more than 30 feet from the front of my car. I had a chance to watch it for at least 5 seconds (it seemed much longer) and it was definitely a feline and, as I said, it was BLACK. I don’t expect to change anyone’s mind but I also know what I saw.