Comments on: Copy of Penn & Teller’s Release

By: claytron

claytron — Sun, 23 Apr 2006 17:44:43 +0000

They’re simply not making a documentary. It doesn’t matter what they’ve told you. When you’re manufacturing entertainment the way they do, they can request to take liberties. Of course you haven’t signed a release like that, you’ve not been on a such a show before. If you get the joke and don’t mind having fun poked at you, be on the show. If you don’t feel it’s appropriate… it’s quite simple. Don’t. You can disagree with their practices, but again to me it seems your taking this really personally. ‘That’s showbiz,’ as they say. It’s not honest, it’s not clean, and you don’t have to like it. That doesn’t mean you should be offended because they approached you. Take it as a compliment and politely decline them based on the fact you don’t like the terms of their release.

By: gordonrutter

gordonrutter — Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:17:30 +0000

It sure in heck is nothing like the releases I’ve signed for the BBC that’s for sure.

Gordon

By: Loren Coleman

Loren Coleman — Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:52:17 +0000

Actually, I don’t *need* them. I’ve been on literally hundreds of programs since 1969, produced my own documentaries, and, my gosh, taught a documentary film course at the university level for 23 semesters. I’ve never seen a release set up to so clearly give an open-ended ability to fictionalize documentary footage to the filmmaker.

By: claytron

claytron — Sat, 22 Apr 2006 20:02:36 +0000

As I mentioned in the other thread, they’re making a TV show. You’re not in a position to make demands of them. They’re offering you free promotion for yourself and whatever. You either have to believe any publicity is good publicity as most people do, or just not be on the show. They don’t NEED you, and as such they don’t have to meet any concessions. What you’ve been presented is a pretty standard release form for such a thing. People need to be able to do what they want with footage. If you aren’t comfortable with that, then you really have no room to complain. You can’t demand they that can’t use the footage they pay for how they see fit in a situation you know you have no control over? Well I think that’s pretty much given. Just don’t be on their show. You KNOW they’re going to be poking fun at the topic. That’s what they do. If you’re want to expose some sort grain of truth in a distributed television show… you’ve got another thing coming. That’s not their interest, it’s yours. They’re making entertainment. People who are attacking this miss the point of what Penn & Teller do and how any one who understands the concept of sarcasm percieves them. They are deceptive pranksters. That’s their characters. They’ve been playing them for a long time. I’ve met them, they’re very charming in real life; but they’re opinionated, just like you, and are going to present themselves as the same devious miscreants that they always have. For those of us who love them, we wouldn’t have it any other way… for those of you who don’t… change the channel. They’re not making the show for you.

By: Mnynames

Mnynames — Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:44:23 +0000

Welcome to America! I’m gonna edit you and manipulate your image to make you appear to be a complete fool when I accuse you of falsifying the truth. I’m amazed these guys aren’t in politics…

By: mrdark

mrdark — Fri, 21 Apr 2006 02:45:38 +0000

The clause in that release that sends up -huge- red flags for me is that section about how they can ‘delete, dub and/or fictionalize the Footage and Materials, the Program, and the Advertisements as Producer sees fit in Producer’s sole discretion.’

I’ll call this the Michael Moore clause. In effect this states ‘if we don’t like what you say, we reserve the right to completely forge it or otherwise manipulate it to the point that it says what we want, and not anything remotely resembling what you actually said.’

As a previously partial P&T defender, I gotta say this yanks my support entirely. In this release they clearly state the desire to do exactly what they accuse so many others of doing: completely falsifying claims.

Considering Penn’s direct claim at the end of ‘Michael Moore Hates America’ that if the director of MMHA edits him to make him say something he didn’t, that he would ‘f’ing kill him’, it’s doubly-egregious.

My hope is that the show is made by some production team with P&T only having general overview of creative meetings and doing the voiceovers, which might explain why this release so completely deviates from what they have publically stood for in the last 20 years or so of their career.

By: Loren Coleman

Loren Coleman — Fri, 21 Apr 2006 01:45:30 +0000

Yes, of course, they did. But that was my point. My added paragraph was as silly as their ability to do what they were proposing to do with their “documentary footage.” After all, they clearly noted they would have “the right to edit for any purpose whatsoever (including, without limitation, an informative, instructional, humorous or satirical effect) delete, dub and/or fictionalize the Footage.”

I would have been foolish to sign that!

By: vjmurphy

vjmurphy — Fri, 21 Apr 2006 01:40:32 +0000

They rightfully rejected your amendment, because you could pretty much claim, based on your wording, that ANYTHING would trigger that clause. It’s too vague. I mean, come on “or otherwise in a negative light?”

The correct amendment to make is to ask that your own film crew film the interview as well, so that if they take anything out of context, you’ll have your own copy of the interview to impeach with.

By: RocketSeason

RocketSeason — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 23:21:14 +0000

Oh well, Let them eat cake…as it were.