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	<title>Comments on: Pangboche Yeti Finger In Context: What Does Human Mean?</title>
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		<title>By: norman-uk</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/pangboche-dna2/comment-page-1/#comment-75589</link>
		<dc:creator>norman-uk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jan 2012 23:51:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Thank you loren for your clarification.

 We are left with a likely human hand but which in addition is reported by some as having marked neanderthal features. The Dna result shows that the sample is basicaly human too but does not rule out it may be something more. The appearance and size of the hand suggets it wouldnt seem to be from the large manimal yeti which is normally meant when people discuss the hymalayan version.  But it could more easily be from the medium and human size &#039;yeti&#039;. Maybe a neanderthal or part neanderthal or something a bit closer geneticaly than the ususal european. Maybe something else ! 

 Scat and hair samples are still available from W C Osmans hills collection, but is the source known? Potential of these samples isnt great but you never know!

 What we have is an incomplete solution to this old mystery and there is always a chance that it can and will be solved.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you loren for your clarification.</p>
<p> We are left with a likely human hand but which in addition is reported by some as having marked neanderthal features. The Dna result shows that the sample is basicaly human too but does not rule out it may be something more. The appearance and size of the hand suggets it wouldnt seem to be from the large manimal yeti which is normally meant when people discuss the hymalayan version.  But it could more easily be from the medium and human size &#8216;yeti&#8217;. Maybe a neanderthal or part neanderthal or something a bit closer geneticaly than the ususal european. Maybe something else ! </p>
<p> Scat and hair samples are still available from W C Osmans hills collection, but is the source known? Potential of these samples isnt great but you never know!</p>
<p> What we have is an incomplete solution to this old mystery and there is always a chance that it can and will be solved.</p>
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		<title>By: alan borky</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/pangboche-dna2/comment-page-1/#comment-75524</link>
		<dc:creator>alan borky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Dec 2011 07:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&#039;What was meant by a finding of “human”?&#039;

Nailed it in one, Loren: that&#039;s the crux of the whole thing, given we don&#039;t know what yeti DNA looks like.

They&#039;re people saying, &quot;It&#039;s human, move on!&quot; but on that basis, &quot;Otzi&#039;s human - move on!&quot;  &quot;Denisovans?  Human - move on!&quot;  &quot;Neanderthals?  Human - move on!&quot;  &quot;Laetoli footprints?  Human - move on!&quot;

Given it seems like every other day researchers&#039;re finding less and less difference between human and ape DNA, that alone should send alarm bells ringing when someone peremptorily decides dispensing the mere term &#039;human&#039; constitutes any kind of explanation of anything.

Because what if the remains of some &#039;yetis&#039; are actually Tibet&#039;s hitherto unknown equivalent of Mexico&#039;s Wolf Boys?

What if the whole yeti legend evolved out of hypothetical Tibetan Wolf Boys - or something similar?

Well the truth is we&#039;re never go&#039;n&#039;o find out so long as &#039;human&#039; passes for a sufficient answer!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;What was meant by a finding of “human”?&#8217;</p>
<p>Nailed it in one, Loren: that&#8217;s the crux of the whole thing, given we don&#8217;t know what yeti DNA looks like.</p>
<p>They&#8217;re people saying, &#8220;It&#8217;s human, move on!&#8221; but on that basis, &#8220;Otzi&#8217;s human &#8211; move on!&#8221;  &#8220;Denisovans?  Human &#8211; move on!&#8221;  &#8220;Neanderthals?  Human &#8211; move on!&#8221;  &#8220;Laetoli footprints?  Human &#8211; move on!&#8221;</p>
<p>Given it seems like every other day researchers&#8217;re finding less and less difference between human and ape DNA, that alone should send alarm bells ringing when someone peremptorily decides dispensing the mere term &#8216;human&#8217; constitutes any kind of explanation of anything.</p>
<p>Because what if the remains of some &#8216;yetis&#8217; are actually Tibet&#8217;s hitherto unknown equivalent of Mexico&#8217;s Wolf Boys?</p>
<p>What if the whole yeti legend evolved out of hypothetical Tibetan Wolf Boys &#8211; or something similar?</p>
<p>Well the truth is we&#8217;re never go&#8217;n'o find out so long as &#8216;human&#8217; passes for a sufficient answer!</p>
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		<title>By: norman-uk</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/pangboche-dna2/comment-page-1/#comment-75503</link>
		<dc:creator>norman-uk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2011 15:40:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[There seems to be some confusion about the pangboche hand business. Sanderson reported there were two mummified hands (not including the leopard paw). One of which had neanderthal features, which is which?

In discussing the size of the hands, what seems to have been left out is that Sanderson reported more than one kind of yeti from the area. Both large and small species. So the average human size of the hand, without considering maturity issues, does not rule out it was a mummified yeti.

Seems to me there is a lot to be found out about the TWO hand specimens and where they are now. Maybe there has been government intervention as the early history of the samples does not seem to have been a happy one. I would imagine there are with modern sensitivities, reason for some retreat from openness by Nepal authorities. Which ever version you accept of how the finger bone was obtained from the monastery, either by whiskey or cash! Could there be more potential yeti artifacts that under the right conditions of respect be made available for ethical examination?

+++++++++
&lt;em&gt;INSTANT REPLY FROM LOREN COLEMAN:

I respond here so that the reading of this comment from &quot;norman-uk&quot; will not lead to any further confusion. 

As I have written before, even Ivan T. Sanderson was human and could get confused.  Beyond the Makalu &quot;forearm&quot; that did turn out to be from a snow leopard), Sanderson mistakenly mentions &quot;two hands&quot; at Pangboche because he is looking at 1958 photographs and post-1959 photographs. He is comparing the rougher pre-Peter Byrne reworked hand with the post-1959, wired-bone hand. The photographs that the 1960 World Book expedition, for example, as well as some Japanese expedition pictures, took, do look remarkably like a &quot;new hand.&quot; There were not &quot;two hand specimens&quot; but only Sanderson&#039;s confusion.

These misindentifications over the hand have nothing to do with the completely different concept that there are two, or more correctly, three types of Yetis, which are small, mansized, and huge (e.g. Thelma, Met-Teh, Dzu-Teh). These three forms are discussed in Nepal, Tibet, Bhutan, and the area. The Dzu-Teh is generally considered to be a mixed tradition of blue bear and True Giants.

~ Loren&lt;/em&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There seems to be some confusion about the pangboche hand business. Sanderson reported there were two mummified hands (not including the leopard paw). One of which had neanderthal features, which is which?</p>
<p>In discussing the size of the hands, what seems to have been left out is that Sanderson reported more than one kind of yeti from the area. Both large and small species. So the average human size of the hand, without considering maturity issues, does not rule out it was a mummified yeti.</p>
<p>Seems to me there is a lot to be found out about the TWO hand specimens and where they are now. Maybe there has been government intervention as the early history of the samples does not seem to have been a happy one. I would imagine there are with modern sensitivities, reason for some retreat from openness by Nepal authorities. Which ever version you accept of how the finger bone was obtained from the monastery, either by whiskey or cash! Could there be more potential yeti artifacts that under the right conditions of respect be made available for ethical examination?</p>
<p>+++++++++<br />
<em>INSTANT REPLY FROM LOREN COLEMAN:</p>
<p>I respond here so that the reading of this comment from &#8220;norman-uk&#8221; will not lead to any further confusion. </p>
<p>As I have written before, even Ivan T. Sanderson was human and could get confused.  Beyond the Makalu &#8220;forearm&#8221; that did turn out to be from a snow leopard), Sanderson mistakenly mentions &#8220;two hands&#8221; at Pangboche because he is looking at 1958 photographs and post-1959 photographs. He is comparing the rougher pre-Peter Byrne reworked hand with the post-1959, wired-bone hand. The photographs that the 1960 World Book expedition, for example, as well as some Japanese expedition pictures, took, do look remarkably like a &#8220;new hand.&#8221; There were not &#8220;two hand specimens&#8221; but only Sanderson&#8217;s confusion.</p>
<p>These misindentifications over the hand have nothing to do with the completely different concept that there are two, or more correctly, three types of Yetis, which are small, mansized, and huge (e.g. Thelma, Met-Teh, Dzu-Teh). These three forms are discussed in Nepal, Tibet, Bhutan, and the area. The Dzu-Teh is generally considered to be a mixed tradition of blue bear and True Giants.</p>
<p>~ Loren</em></p>
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		<title>By: Cass_of_MPLS</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/pangboche-dna2/comment-page-1/#comment-75501</link>
		<dc:creator>Cass_of_MPLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2011 15:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=49210#comment-75501</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[

Now, about the DNA on this hand. Don&#039;t imagine any cover up, please. The hand just didn&#039;t belong to a Yeti. 

Doesn&#039;t say anything about the possible existence of said &quot;beastie.&quot;

Let it go...let it go....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now, about the DNA on this hand. Don&#8217;t imagine any cover up, please. The hand just didn&#8217;t belong to a Yeti. </p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t say anything about the possible existence of said &#8220;beastie.&#8221;</p>
<p>Let it go&#8230;let it go&#8230;.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: norman-uk</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/pangboche-dna2/comment-page-1/#comment-75498</link>
		<dc:creator>norman-uk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2011 15:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=49210#comment-75498</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[matte bille,

The huge billionaire cern project is quite a lot different to DNA tests on a suggested yeti or bigfoot sample and was the result they got anomalous or was the paradigm? For a start the yeti is a bit thin on official scientific credibility. Then it appears to be uncomfortably close to human affairs. Anything in that area of human identity is usually more political than scientific. Science has also often been shown to be mistaken or fraudulent, (as have yeti believers or non-believers). 

Trapper said;

&#039;&#039;Will we ever know the complete truth on this finger, no…. Even if they do decide to run nuclear dna on it and it comes back something strange, we would never hear about it. Scientists just dont want to have egg all over their faces.&#039;&#039;

Though in my opinion this is over the top I think it does apply somewhat in reality even if its only shading, especially where careers or funding are at stake. You know how it is!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>matte bille,</p>
<p>The huge billionaire cern project is quite a lot different to DNA tests on a suggested yeti or bigfoot sample and was the result they got anomalous or was the paradigm? For a start the yeti is a bit thin on official scientific credibility. Then it appears to be uncomfortably close to human affairs. Anything in that area of human identity is usually more political than scientific. Science has also often been shown to be mistaken or fraudulent, (as have yeti believers or non-believers). </p>
<p>Trapper said;</p>
<p>&#8221;Will we ever know the complete truth on this finger, no…. Even if they do decide to run nuclear dna on it and it comes back something strange, we would never hear about it. Scientists just dont want to have egg all over their faces.&#8221;</p>
<p>Though in my opinion this is over the top I think it does apply somewhat in reality even if its only shading, especially where careers or funding are at stake. You know how it is!</p>
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		<title>By: Cass_of_MPLS</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/pangboche-dna2/comment-page-1/#comment-75490</link>
		<dc:creator>Cass_of_MPLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2011 07:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=49210#comment-75490</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I lived Ivan T. Sanderson&#039;s book it was, if not my first---at least one of my earliest exposures to the subject. It was originally published in 1961 and I was eleven years old. Just the right age. You can read it for &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sacred-texts.com/lcr/abs/index.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;free&lt;/a&gt;.

Always kinda wished he&#039;d returned my Thunderbird photo before he died, though. My grandpa gave me that (just kidding).

ANYWAY...

Once again we are faced with it. The Truth vs What We Hoped Was True. If the Pangboche Hand is homo sapiens and nothing else than so be it.

The Quest Continues.

THIS we know...the world IS stranger than Mainstream Science (as it was taught in school) has ever allowed for. Ask any Quantum Physicist.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I lived Ivan T. Sanderson&#8217;s book it was, if not my first&#8212;at least one of my earliest exposures to the subject. It was originally published in 1961 and I was eleven years old. Just the right age. You can read it for <a href="http://www.sacred-texts.com/lcr/abs/index.htm" rel="nofollow">free</a>.</p>
<p>Always kinda wished he&#8217;d returned my Thunderbird photo before he died, though. My grandpa gave me that (just kidding).</p>
<p>ANYWAY&#8230;</p>
<p>Once again we are faced with it. The Truth vs What We Hoped Was True. If the Pangboche Hand is homo sapiens and nothing else than so be it.</p>
<p>The Quest Continues.</p>
<p>THIS we know&#8230;the world IS stranger than Mainstream Science (as it was taught in school) has ever allowed for. Ask any Quantum Physicist.</p>
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		<title>By: Ragnar</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/pangboche-dna2/comment-page-1/#comment-75483</link>
		<dc:creator>Ragnar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2011 00:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=49210#comment-75483</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The &quot;yeti finger&quot; is just another in a very long line of fakes.  Intentional or not, its obviously a human finger.  Reminds me very much of the relics craze in the middle ages.  Every monastery had a saint&#039;s hand, head, finger, piece of the true cross, etc.  And nearly all were fakes, manufactured in various places and sold to credulous souls.  

Not surprised at all that Nepalese monks would have a hand they thought was a yeti&#039;s; sometimes faith isn&#039;t about the truth.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;yeti finger&#8221; is just another in a very long line of fakes.  Intentional or not, its obviously a human finger.  Reminds me very much of the relics craze in the middle ages.  Every monastery had a saint&#8217;s hand, head, finger, piece of the true cross, etc.  And nearly all were fakes, manufactured in various places and sold to credulous souls.  </p>
<p>Not surprised at all that Nepalese monks would have a hand they thought was a yeti&#8217;s; sometimes faith isn&#8217;t about the truth.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Byrne</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/pangboche-dna2/comment-page-1/#comment-75482</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Byrne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2011 23:36:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=49210#comment-75482</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m just saying here...  Is it &quot;modern&quot; human?  A bunch of related discussion has many of these creatures being &quot;human&quot;, but not modern.  These things tend to get the old, &quot;Yep, the human primer pulled up some fragments.  Case closed, yeti is myth&quot;.  It will probably go into the skeptics&#039; armory now, as a great example of how &quot;open minded science&quot; always seems to come up empty handed on yeti and bigfoot.  The complete opposite may only be some nuclear DNA testing and analysis away.  If all they did was the mitochondrial dna testing and it came back &quot;human&quot; they should at least be able to say either that it is modern or how recently it may have had mother related to one of us.

I really don&#039;t care what the truth is, I just want to understand it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just saying here&#8230;  Is it &#8220;modern&#8221; human?  A bunch of related discussion has many of these creatures being &#8220;human&#8221;, but not modern.  These things tend to get the old, &#8220;Yep, the human primer pulled up some fragments.  Case closed, yeti is myth&#8221;.  It will probably go into the skeptics&#8217; armory now, as a great example of how &#8220;open minded science&#8221; always seems to come up empty handed on yeti and bigfoot.  The complete opposite may only be some nuclear DNA testing and analysis away.  If all they did was the mitochondrial dna testing and it came back &#8220;human&#8221; they should at least be able to say either that it is modern or how recently it may have had mother related to one of us.</p>
<p>I really don&#8217;t care what the truth is, I just want to understand it.</p>
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		<title>By: MattBille</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/pangboche-dna2/comment-page-1/#comment-75481</link>
		<dc:creator>MattBille</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2011 21:39:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=49210#comment-75481</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re the comment: &quot;Even if they do decide to run nuclear dna on it and it comes back something strange, we would never hear about it. Scientists just dont want to have egg all over their faces.&quot;

When physicists had anomalous results from a test of the speed of a beam of neutrinos - indicating these particles moved faster than light, contrary to a host of previous experiments and well-established dogma - we immediately heard about it, in the media and an open scientific meeting.  Claiming the existence of a new primate is small potatoes compared to the degree to which these people put their reputations, and maybe livelihoods, on the line.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re the comment: &#8220;Even if they do decide to run nuclear dna on it and it comes back something strange, we would never hear about it. Scientists just dont want to have egg all over their faces.&#8221;</p>
<p>When physicists had anomalous results from a test of the speed of a beam of neutrinos &#8211; indicating these particles moved faster than light, contrary to a host of previous experiments and well-established dogma &#8211; we immediately heard about it, in the media and an open scientific meeting.  Claiming the existence of a new primate is small potatoes compared to the degree to which these people put their reputations, and maybe livelihoods, on the line.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/pangboche-dna2/comment-page-1/#comment-75479</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2011 21:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=49210#comment-75479</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I find this discussion interesting if for no other reason that in my observation (and I could be wrong) it seems some folks posting here are becoming a bit irritated or even worse, actually P.O.’d by where this “analysis” has headed. That is, that either the famous hand has been merely a normal human hand fraudulently (or a simply more innocent case of mistaken identity) portrayed as orginating from a Yeti. The other possibility (which seems to be the immense source of irritation to some) is that it is from a Yeti and their DNA is similar enough to human to be determined just that. As such, that is the only true conclusion that can be drawn here. It is an either/or proposition and really not a solid conclusion at this point. Now, before I draw some ire from those who are somehow certain the term “fake” is the sole conclusion, I ask you to consider this: how does anyone know what a Yeti is as far as DNA goes? Who is to say that they are not some human variant with our same DNA. Is that automatically beyond possible here? I think not, since nobody can prove their existence beyond a shadow of doubt!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find this discussion interesting if for no other reason that in my observation (and I could be wrong) it seems some folks posting here are becoming a bit irritated or even worse, actually P.O.’d by where this “analysis” has headed. That is, that either the famous hand has been merely a normal human hand fraudulently (or a simply more innocent case of mistaken identity) portrayed as orginating from a Yeti. The other possibility (which seems to be the immense source of irritation to some) is that it is from a Yeti and their DNA is similar enough to human to be determined just that. As such, that is the only true conclusion that can be drawn here. It is an either/or proposition and really not a solid conclusion at this point. Now, before I draw some ire from those who are somehow certain the term “fake” is the sole conclusion, I ask you to consider this: how does anyone know what a Yeti is as far as DNA goes? Who is to say that they are not some human variant with our same DNA. Is that automatically beyond possible here? I think not, since nobody can prove their existence beyond a shadow of doubt!</p>
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