Comments on: More Otter Nonsense

By: jerrywayne

jerrywayne — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 11:28:54 +0000

We should remember that Spicer’s account occurred in 1933. There were no TVs and probably very few nature shows at the cinema. An otter (or family of otters) crossing the road was probably a foreign experience. Perhaps the same thing with seals. Add newly minted “monster” and “sea serpent” stories about the lake, and the release of KING KONG, and one can see how Spicer may have given an overblown account of his “sighting”.

By: shumway10973

shumway10973 — Wed, 20 Jun 2007 17:23:50 +0000

Has anyone here seen pictures (or maybe been there in person) of the rock at Loch Ness (I believe it’s near there) that the Celtic people carved every animal on? We recognize all but one, the water horse. There is no way an otter could ever be an explanation for any of the Loch Ness sightings, especially the sonar blip of something larger than their boat and moving faster than they could keep up.

And for the Utah sightings: I might have missed it in the above report, but other sightings of the original Mormon settlers along with the natives of the area have almost all described those creatures as looking like nessie except that they have ears like a dog. I will have to find my book again, but I do believe it might have said a face like a dog. In any case, 2 things, otters do not have ears like a dog and I have never heard of inland otters swimming in Salt Lake (where some of the reports came from).

By: mystery_man

mystery_man — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 15:40:01 +0000

Dogu4- Sorry, I forgot to comment on what you said about larger reptiles maintaining heat. This is a very good point and is known as gigantothermy. When a reptile is large, it has more mass to hold in the heat and so the heat takes a longer time to leave the body. If they get cold, they simply have to move and the energy will produce heat. Since reptiles gain heat faster than they lose it, this could very well lead to the overheating that you mentioned. An interesting reptile that employs this is the leatherback turtle, which maintains a body temperature quite a bit higher than the surrounding water. If nessie is a reptile, then i guess this could be a possibility. Good point.

In actuality, I guess we should consider that it is not always easy to clearly differentiate animals as having strictly endothermic and ectothermic tendencies since some animals display a bit of both and fall somewhere in the middle. There are animals that can display both poikilothermic traits (varying body temperature), and heterothermic traits (constant body temperature) and so it is true that thermophysiology can be more like a spectrum than anything categorical. I suppose since there are a wide range of thermoregulatory strategies that are employed by many cold blooded animals allowing them to survive in cold areas, it is feasible this could be going on in the Loch somehow. Perhaps reptiles should not be discounted too quickly, I just felt that this particular area does not have good representation of this happening. Interesting speculation.

I still feel mammals are a good possibility too. Good discussion.

By: mystery_man

mystery_man — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 14:56:32 +0000

If we are to discuss creatures that do not get out of the water and are entirely water dwelling, then I have lots of different theories on what Nessie could be. This account features a creature that obviously leaves the water to make forays onto land, so that is what I am speculating about here and a mammal seems like a good possibility in regards to this sighting. A mammilian explanation for Nessie in general makes sense in many ways to me, but it is not the only possible answer, of course.

By: mystery_man

mystery_man — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 14:47:46 +0000

Let us also remember that this discussion is based around the Spicer sighting, which features a land roving creature. Not too many sharks or hagfish that fit this description, especially in fresh water.

By: mystery_man

mystery_man — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 14:45:12 +0000

Dogu4- There are animals in marine environments that thrive in cold water true enough. But in this case I am talking about a cold, freshwater Loch and large reptiles rather than sharks or octopus. Coldwater areas like this do not lend themselves to being ideal habitat for large reptiles of this sort and I think you will find Scotland and similar habitats to be lacking these sorts of animals. Other cold water creatures that you mention are a possibility, but I was talking about reptiles in this case. I feel a large reptile such as a crocodillian living in the cold waters of the Loch in an area where no known examples of this sort of organism exist, in an unlikely habitat for such a creature is a tad far fetched. If you were to ask me which is more likely, a new type of European reptile that is large and uniquely adapted to cold water, a type of giant freshwater octopus, or a mammal that is well represented by many large species known to be adapted to cold water, even fresh water, my guess is that a mammal is a good possibility. It is not my only theory, as you known from my other posts on other threads, but it is a highly plausible one.

By: dogu4

dogu4 — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 14:16:48 +0000

Mystery Man…that assertion regarding large cold blooded reptiles seems right enough, but there are f cold blooded animals that do live in cold water besides our salamander friends: octopus, deep water sharks, eels, plasmodiums (and my favorite crypto species, hagfish). I think there may be a size at which point no matter what the metabolism is, heat will be conserved and the problem will be overheating. I’m still researchin’ the polymorphism of anadromous fish but the salmon landlocked species it seems sometimes will revert back to saltwater patterns.
Enjoying this discussion. thanks

By: mystery_man

mystery_man — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 08:39:05 +0000

SHJ- I’d like to hear some of your theories and talk biology. I tend to go with a mammalian explanation simply because of the temperatures around the Loch. I am not sure exactly about the normal temperatures there, but Scotland is not exactly an ideal place for large, cold blooded reptiles. Although this report happened in the summer, the creature would likely be a year round reisdent so I would be suprised if it is a reptile in a Scottish Loch. I would not rule out some sort of giant salamander though, as they prefer cold water and they would be able to leave the water.

By: sasquatch

sasquatch — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 04:22:20 +0000

When I see’s a seal, I says; hey look y’all, I see’s a seal! Gimme a break…Also wasn’t there a motorcyclist that had a similar encounter on the road above the Loch?

By: springheeledjack

springheeledjack — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 00:18:31 +0000

again, I think we go with first impressions and it was something that spanned the road and it was not an otter…unless we have a mutant long necked otter in which case we are moving into a new speciea….

the point is that we have a case where someting is definitely not fitting the norm and we are then left with something that does not fit within normal paramaters….

as friend of mine often says….bring it…