..and so is the distinct sound of a member of the human species, beaten in the discussion game by a stronger kin.
(then a change of subject usually follows)

We will agree to disagree on this one. All of the data certainly is NOT in.

I suppose that you saw that a new mammal–a carnivore–was just discovered in Borneo. Looks like a lemur–or a skinny wallaby–or a cat–or, something.

If you take a good look at the mystery ape, compare its physiognomy with that of both a chimpanzee and a gorilla; which one does it look like to you? A simple question, and surely your eyesight will reveal to you that the entire forestructure of the face, particularly the nostrils, eye-socket structure, etc., is gorillia-like. Completely.

I’ll stick with the hybrid/new species hypothesis for now, and we’ll agree to disagree?

Be careful about dogmatism when dealing with the unknown or the new. As Fort said:

“The power that has said to all these things that they are damned, is Dogmatic Science.”

Second time today I’ve had opportunity to post that one, and the next Fort quote, which is even more appropriate when it comes to finding strange, large, new animals in seemingly-familiar, taxonomy-certain locations (like Borneo, or Africa):

“I hear three yells from some hitherto undiscovered, grotesque critter at the very entrance of the desert.”

Best,

-W.M. Mott

“These scientists came to the conclusion that while some of the chimps around Bili may have some interesting new cultural traits worth investigating, there was little evidence for a new species or even sub species.”

“The DNA result, in form of mt DNA was done by three different labs arriving to the same conclusion. (The ground nesting chimps are clearly of the schweinfurthii subspecies).”

Note that the mitochondrial DNA is called “chimp-like.” This could mean that this animal represents a new variety of chimpanzee, or that it is simply closely related to the chimpanzee (as a hybrid would be). The animal, however, exhibits a ferocity which excells that of both chimps and gorillas, and many of the physical characteristics, and nesting habits, of gorillas.

There is quite a bit of distance between the dwelling-places of lowland and highland gorillas, but this doesn’t mean that they are utterly unrelated from one another. Over time, human encroachment and environmental change have served to isolated and shrink the few populations which are left. The same thing could very well have happened with this animal, and in fact, it probably did. This would explain the likelihood of hybridization, making it very more likely to have occurred. The original parent populations of both chimps and gorillas are therefore gone, nearby or far-away relatives notwithstanding, and all we are left with is a new animal which is the result of hybridization due to isolation and shrinking gene-pools in the original two animal populations which were originally in the region.

-W.M. Mott

“All of the mentioned articles on the Bili ape are out of date. Mitochondiral DNA tests have shown only Pan troglodytes schweinfurthii to be present.”
No, this is not conclusive.
As stated here:

—–

Link

“We compared fecal samples from this unknown animal to the DNA of captive gorillas, bonobos, and chimps,” Louis said. “Our preliminary data shows that the mitochondrial DNA is chimp-like.”
But mitochondrial DNA is passed down only from the mother’s side. So if this species or sub-species is a hybrid of a chimp mother and a gorilla father, current DNA would only identify information from the mother.

Tests yet to come are nuclear DNA tests: This roadmap would come from both parents.

——

So the ape could be a new hybrid, but if procreating within the “hybrid” population, then you have a “new species”. This is the way that some new species are believed to come about.

As for hurting cryptozoology’s credibility, allowing the ignorant to trash the field and its adherents without being called to task is the surest way to do just that. In my opinion, anyway.

-W.M. Mott

All of the mentioned articles on the Bili ape are out of date. Mitochondiral DNA tests have shown only Pan troglodytes schweinfurthii to be present.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bili_Ape

Link 2

Do you like being called “credulous”?

That was an insult of demeaning type from the anonymous editor at the website in question. Essentially, the statement is the same as saying that if you consider the possibility of unknown animals existing, then you must be some sort of gullible idiot.

Now _that’s_ insulting.

BTW, the Bondo apes have not been identified utterly. They may be an inbred species, or they may be a gorilla-chimp hybrid with the ability to reproduce (which would make them a _new_ species). Or they may be something related to chimps and gorillas, but distinct. The inbred theory is, well, a theory. They exhibit characteristics of both chimps and gorillas, and no final determination (as far as I know) has been made. Theories still abound, however.

-W.M. Mott