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	<title>Comments on: Mystery Fish Continues</title>
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		<title>By: Eidolon</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/mystfishcont/comment-page-2/#comment-6858</link>
		<dc:creator>Eidolon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Sep 2006 09:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/mystery-fish-photo/#comment-6858</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How about a large cousin of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Electrophorus_electricus.html&quot;&gt;electric eel&lt;/a&gt;, Electrophorus electricus?

In more detail, my hypothesis follows:

1) Assumptions

1a) The photograph is genuine, and the subjects in the image do not involve any sort of illusion, such as period costumes, props, or scenery.

1b) The star of the picture is a bony fish.

1c) The fish lies mostly on its right side, though the head may be at least partly propped up with another object, such as the one fellow&#039;s boot (&quot;OK, push a little to the right; now a little forward.&quot;)

1d) No fins of any significant size have been removed from the fish, either before or after its meeting with the men in the photo.

1e) No other organs of any significance have been removed from the fish, or if they have, then their removal has not significantly altered its overall shape or characters.

1f) The &quot;upward bend&quot; of the &quot;mouth&quot; is actually the gill cover opening, and only the &quot;front 1/4&quot; of the &quot;mouth&quot; is the mouth. The dark line connecting these two features is the injury created when the bill hook used to pull the fish tore through its &quot;cheek&quot; from gill cover to inner edge of mouth.

2) Arguments in favor of &quot;relative of electric eel&quot; hypothesis

2a) The overall shape of the head and body match reasonably well, except that the fish in the picture is more &quot;stout&quot; and less elongated.

2b) Tiny pectoral fins like those of an electric eel might not be visible, especially if there is an injury or bit of shrubbery obscuring that part of the fish.

2c) The long &quot;ventral fin&quot; (if that&#039;s the proper term) of a creature like the electric eel could be folded under its body, thus giving the fish the appearance of being completely finless.

2d) Electric eels are native to swamps and marshes of South America, so it is not beyond the bounds of reason to suggest that a larger relative could exist in Nicaragua.

2d) The size of the fish, while impressive for a presumed fresh-water creature, would not break any kind of record.

2e) The expressions of the men might not arise from amusement, as suggested by one person, but from discomfort and mistrust, particularly if one or more people were injured or killed by the creature&#039;s electric shocks.

3) Some potential problems with the &quot;relative of electric eel&quot; hypothesis

3a) &quot;While the length of our subject is not excessive for an electric eel, its depth of body is substantially greater, yielding a different aspect ratio and much greater mass, perhaps 20-50 times that of an electric eel.&quot; This problem essentially excludes the electric eel per se, but I know of no biological reason that would prevent a related genus or species from growing to this size. The &quot;tail&quot; of an electric eel contains mostly the specialized muscles used to create electric potentials, but a thicker creature may not need to create *larger* shocks to stun its prey than the electric eel does, and so might reasonably get by with a proportionately smaller electric apparatus.

3b) &quot;The barred coloring of our subject resembles that of open-water fish more so than that of electric eels, which tend toward simpler top/bottom countershading.&quot; However, a different ecological niche would require different camouflage.

3c) &quot;Electric fish of such large size certainly would have attracted the attention of scientists by now.&quot; To some extent, this argument may be applied to any cryptid, and is usually countered by suggesting that the creatures are rare or elusive, or that scientists from industrialized countries have ignored local knowledge of such creatures. In particular, if these fish were native to a shallow swamp or marsh that was later drained to make way for agriculture, used as a landfill, or contaminated with mine tailings, the poor creatures easily could have gone extinct in anonymity.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about a large cousin of the <a href="http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Electrophorus_electricus.html">electric eel</a>, Electrophorus electricus?</p>
<p>In more detail, my hypothesis follows:</p>
<p>1) Assumptions</p>
<p>1a) The photograph is genuine, and the subjects in the image do not involve any sort of illusion, such as period costumes, props, or scenery.</p>
<p>1b) The star of the picture is a bony fish.</p>
<p>1c) The fish lies mostly on its right side, though the head may be at least partly propped up with another object, such as the one fellow&#8217;s boot (&#8220;OK, push a little to the right; now a little forward.&#8221;)</p>
<p>1d) No fins of any significant size have been removed from the fish, either before or after its meeting with the men in the photo.</p>
<p>1e) No other organs of any significance have been removed from the fish, or if they have, then their removal has not significantly altered its overall shape or characters.</p>
<p>1f) The &#8220;upward bend&#8221; of the &#8220;mouth&#8221; is actually the gill cover opening, and only the &#8220;front 1/4&#8243; of the &#8220;mouth&#8221; is the mouth. The dark line connecting these two features is the injury created when the bill hook used to pull the fish tore through its &#8220;cheek&#8221; from gill cover to inner edge of mouth.</p>
<p>2) Arguments in favor of &#8220;relative of electric eel&#8221; hypothesis</p>
<p>2a) The overall shape of the head and body match reasonably well, except that the fish in the picture is more &#8220;stout&#8221; and less elongated.</p>
<p>2b) Tiny pectoral fins like those of an electric eel might not be visible, especially if there is an injury or bit of shrubbery obscuring that part of the fish.</p>
<p>2c) The long &#8220;ventral fin&#8221; (if that&#8217;s the proper term) of a creature like the electric eel could be folded under its body, thus giving the fish the appearance of being completely finless.</p>
<p>2d) Electric eels are native to swamps and marshes of South America, so it is not beyond the bounds of reason to suggest that a larger relative could exist in Nicaragua.</p>
<p>2d) The size of the fish, while impressive for a presumed fresh-water creature, would not break any kind of record.</p>
<p>2e) The expressions of the men might not arise from amusement, as suggested by one person, but from discomfort and mistrust, particularly if one or more people were injured or killed by the creature&#8217;s electric shocks.</p>
<p>3) Some potential problems with the &#8220;relative of electric eel&#8221; hypothesis</p>
<p>3a) &#8220;While the length of our subject is not excessive for an electric eel, its depth of body is substantially greater, yielding a different aspect ratio and much greater mass, perhaps 20-50 times that of an electric eel.&#8221; This problem essentially excludes the electric eel per se, but I know of no biological reason that would prevent a related genus or species from growing to this size. The &#8220;tail&#8221; of an electric eel contains mostly the specialized muscles used to create electric potentials, but a thicker creature may not need to create *larger* shocks to stun its prey than the electric eel does, and so might reasonably get by with a proportionately smaller electric apparatus.</p>
<p>3b) &#8220;The barred coloring of our subject resembles that of open-water fish more so than that of electric eels, which tend toward simpler top/bottom countershading.&#8221; However, a different ecological niche would require different camouflage.</p>
<p>3c) &#8220;Electric fish of such large size certainly would have attracted the attention of scientists by now.&#8221; To some extent, this argument may be applied to any cryptid, and is usually countered by suggesting that the creatures are rare or elusive, or that scientists from industrialized countries have ignored local knowledge of such creatures. In particular, if these fish were native to a shallow swamp or marsh that was later drained to make way for agriculture, used as a landfill, or contaminated with mine tailings, the poor creatures easily could have gone extinct in anonymity.</p>
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		<title>By: quill</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/mystfishcont/comment-page-2/#comment-6857</link>
		<dc:creator>quill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Sep 2006 22:08:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/mystery-fish-photo/#comment-6857</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Someone commented earlier that the fish&#039;s head looks like it&#039;s papier mache- I personally think the whole thing looks like it could be made of papier mache. In my opinion, the markings on its sides look like they were made by a paint brush on a rough surface, and those eyes are appear to be painted on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone commented earlier that the fish&#8217;s head looks like it&#8217;s papier mache- I personally think the whole thing looks like it could be made of papier mache. In my opinion, the markings on its sides look like they were made by a paint brush on a rough surface, and those eyes are appear to be painted on.</p>
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		<title>By: mystery_man</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/mystfishcont/comment-page-2/#comment-6838</link>
		<dc:creator>mystery_man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Sep 2006 15:55:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/mystery-fish-photo/#comment-6838</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The thing that doesn&#039;t sit well with me as far as the shark theory goes is &quot;why bother&quot;? It is not very big for a shark, to be honest, especially a tiger shark, like a lot of people seem to think.  So why make a postcard of a couple of guys standing around a pretty mediocre sized shark?  I wonder why they would make a big deal about this particular specimen?  It makes me wonder.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing that doesn&#8217;t sit well with me as far as the shark theory goes is &#8220;why bother&#8221;? It is not very big for a shark, to be honest, especially a tiger shark, like a lot of people seem to think.  So why make a postcard of a couple of guys standing around a pretty mediocre sized shark?  I wonder why they would make a big deal about this particular specimen?  It makes me wonder.</p>
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		<title>By: theminnesotaman</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/mystfishcont/comment-page-2/#comment-6856</link>
		<dc:creator>theminnesotaman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Sep 2006 06:49:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/mystery-fish-photo/#comment-6856</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Looks very much like a shark, on its side, with its upper side toward the camera. Imagine it as if you were in the air, looking down at it in the water.

The &quot;mouth&quot; which some have alluded to isn&#039;t a mouth at all. I would guess it is a combined blood streak and injury from being gaff-hooked, probably by the same instrument that is in the foreground. There seems to be a good candidate for a dorsal fin under the gaff-pole.

Seems to be a trophy picture of a dead shark, but in an unusual pose. I&#039;d surmise that with such a nasty looking and big fish, the men weren&#039;t keen on handling it to pose it more favorably. Thus they took a picture of it as best they could, probably with the fish lying in the same position it was dragged to land in.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks very much like a shark, on its side, with its upper side toward the camera. Imagine it as if you were in the air, looking down at it in the water.</p>
<p>The &#8220;mouth&#8221; which some have alluded to isn&#8217;t a mouth at all. I would guess it is a combined blood streak and injury from being gaff-hooked, probably by the same instrument that is in the foreground. There seems to be a good candidate for a dorsal fin under the gaff-pole.</p>
<p>Seems to be a trophy picture of a dead shark, but in an unusual pose. I&#8217;d surmise that with such a nasty looking and big fish, the men weren&#8217;t keen on handling it to pose it more favorably. Thus they took a picture of it as best they could, probably with the fish lying in the same position it was dragged to land in.</p>
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		<title>By: youcantryreachingme</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/mystfishcont/comment-page-2/#comment-6855</link>
		<dc:creator>youcantryreachingme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Aug 2006 23:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/mystery-fish-photo/#comment-6855</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[shovethenos - you mentioned not seeing much in the way of a tail fin.

After a million hits to the various threads, we&#039;re still debating what *kind* of animal this is - bony fish, shark, mammal, etc.

I spent a bit of time enlarging and enhancing the tail section of this animal, and overlaying it with some lines to show what I&#039;m seeing.

You can see the results at my website, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wherelightmeetsdark.com/index.php?module=pagemaster&amp;PAGE_user_op=view_page&amp;PAGE_id=14&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Where Light Meets Dark&lt;/a&gt;.

As noted above in the commentary here, I conclude from the tail that it&#039;s a bony fish; but at the same time, if I were looking at the head end only, I&#039;d say it was a shark.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>shovethenos &#8211; you mentioned not seeing much in the way of a tail fin.</p>
<p>After a million hits to the various threads, we&#8217;re still debating what *kind* of animal this is &#8211; bony fish, shark, mammal, etc.</p>
<p>I spent a bit of time enlarging and enhancing the tail section of this animal, and overlaying it with some lines to show what I&#8217;m seeing.</p>
<p>You can see the results at my website, <a href="http://www.wherelightmeetsdark.com/index.php?module=pagemaster&amp;PAGE_user_op=view_page&amp;PAGE_id=14" rel="nofollow">Where Light Meets Dark</a>.</p>
<p>As noted above in the commentary here, I conclude from the tail that it&#8217;s a bony fish; but at the same time, if I were looking at the head end only, I&#8217;d say it was a shark.</p>
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		<title>By: mystery_man</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/mystfishcont/comment-page-2/#comment-6854</link>
		<dc:creator>mystery_man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Aug 2006 03:08:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I sure think it would help though if someone can pinpoint this location.  Youcantryreachingme seems to have done his homework and could be on the right track.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I sure think it would help though if someone can pinpoint this location.  Youcantryreachingme seems to have done his homework and could be on the right track.</p>
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		<title>By: mystery_man</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/mystfishcont/comment-page-2/#comment-6853</link>
		<dc:creator>mystery_man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2006 15:08:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/mystery-fish-photo/#comment-6853</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It was taken so long ago that even if we did pin down the location and the exact place, would anyone remember this photo in this context? Possibly these people didn&#039;t even realize what a find they had? People might have found cryptozoological finds and due to ignorance just wrote it off as &quot;some sort of fish.&quot; Add to that the time that has passed, lack of living witnesses, lack of DNA samples, and what not, and I come to the conclusion that it will be very hard to conclusively identify this creature beyond a shadow of a doubt. I don&#039;t say impossible, but quite difficult.  I would gladly stand corrected on this.  But then again, who knows, maybe this is a cryptid that the people in that area know of very well. I&#039;m just throwing ideas out here, searching for the truth.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was taken so long ago that even if we did pin down the location and the exact place, would anyone remember this photo in this context? Possibly these people didn&#8217;t even realize what a find they had? People might have found cryptozoological finds and due to ignorance just wrote it off as &#8220;some sort of fish.&#8221; Add to that the time that has passed, lack of living witnesses, lack of DNA samples, and what not, and I come to the conclusion that it will be very hard to conclusively identify this creature beyond a shadow of a doubt. I don&#8217;t say impossible, but quite difficult.  I would gladly stand corrected on this.  But then again, who knows, maybe this is a cryptid that the people in that area know of very well. I&#8217;m just throwing ideas out here, searching for the truth.</p>
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		<title>By: shovethenos</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/mystfishcont/comment-page-2/#comment-6852</link>
		<dc:creator>shovethenos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2006 07:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/mystery-fish-photo/#comment-6852</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As far as the &quot;tail&quot; end is concerned, I don&#039;t see much in the way of fins - pectoral fins, dorsal fins, caudal fins, tail fins - I don&#039;t see much evidence of any of them. Or scars where they used to be.

I&#039;m basically of the opinion that the right side of the creature is where it was severed from the rest of the body. From what I can tell we are only looking at part (only the head and neck) of a larger animal.

Re: Styrofoam. Remember this is allegedly around the turn of the century and a lot of the things that could be used to hoax something like this now were not in existence then.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as the &#8220;tail&#8221; end is concerned, I don&#8217;t see much in the way of fins &#8211; pectoral fins, dorsal fins, caudal fins, tail fins &#8211; I don&#8217;t see much evidence of any of them. Or scars where they used to be.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m basically of the opinion that the right side of the creature is where it was severed from the rest of the body. From what I can tell we are only looking at part (only the head and neck) of a larger animal.</p>
<p>Re: Styrofoam. Remember this is allegedly around the turn of the century and a lot of the things that could be used to hoax something like this now were not in existence then.</p>
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		<title>By: pipdog</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/mystfishcont/comment-page-2/#comment-6851</link>
		<dc:creator>pipdog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2006 05:28:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[looks like those boys butchered the fins off a shark.... we used to buy postcards when we stayed at the best western of giant chickens that are more convincing!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>looks like those boys butchered the fins off a shark&#8230;. we used to buy postcards when we stayed at the best western of giant chickens that are more convincing!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: youcantryreachingme</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/mystfishcont/comment-page-2/#comment-6850</link>
		<dc:creator>youcantryreachingme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Aug 2006 23:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/mystery-fish-photo/#comment-6850</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Seriously, I don&#039;t see why there would be any reason for this photo to be fake.

Secondly - look at the tail. You can see the caudal peduncle - the junction between the caudal (or tail) fin itself, and the body. It is laterally compressed. In other words, the body is definately on its side and the tail matches a fish, not a whale.

Someone wrote &quot;we will never know&quot;. To the contrary - if we can identify the people, then perhaps locate family, friends or written evidence such as a journal, diary or letter, then we may well find out.

Regarding the Philippines and Nicaragua - it simply strikes me as odd that when you search for the exact same text, you get only a handful of matches, one of which is claimed to be from a series of 40 taken in Nicaragua which often showed the marines in the photo.

Postcards are collectable. People document antique postcards. I still think the Nicaraguan connection is the strongest one we have.

If there are any military researchers amongst us, they should start finding the lists of names of people who went to San Juan Del Sur.

Chris.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seriously, I don&#8217;t see why there would be any reason for this photo to be fake.</p>
<p>Secondly &#8211; look at the tail. You can see the caudal peduncle &#8211; the junction between the caudal (or tail) fin itself, and the body. It is laterally compressed. In other words, the body is definately on its side and the tail matches a fish, not a whale.</p>
<p>Someone wrote &#8220;we will never know&#8221;. To the contrary &#8211; if we can identify the people, then perhaps locate family, friends or written evidence such as a journal, diary or letter, then we may well find out.</p>
<p>Regarding the Philippines and Nicaragua &#8211; it simply strikes me as odd that when you search for the exact same text, you get only a handful of matches, one of which is claimed to be from a series of 40 taken in Nicaragua which often showed the marines in the photo.</p>
<p>Postcards are collectable. People document antique postcards. I still think the Nicaraguan connection is the strongest one we have.</p>
<p>If there are any military researchers amongst us, they should start finding the lists of names of people who went to San Juan Del Sur.</p>
<p>Chris.</p>
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