“Either the most complex and sophisticated hoax in the history of anthropology has continued for centuries without being exposed, or the most manlike (and largest) non-human primate on earth has managed to survive in parts of North America and remains undiscovered by modern science.” - Forensic anthropologist George W. Gill, Former Director of the American Board of Forensic Anthropologists

If I had to say: Bigfoot, yes or no? the thing that might tip me is embodied in the above paragraph. There is too much similarity among too many reports over too much time and too much space with too too many people who have never heard of each other. Nor have the vast majority of them believed it before they saw it.

Hoax?

That’s Incredible!

By way of clarifying postscript, I’d perhaps add that I quite agree with Ben about the current state of the Bigfoot evidence: in my considered, good-faith view, it is not at all compelling. The star cases are generally poisoned by the likelihood of hoaxing, and the mountains of secondary evidence are far, far less consistent or impressive than many people hope. In my view, there are much better explanations available.

Now, I could be wrong — but there’s only one way to find out:

After all these decades, the search for a body (or major part of one) seems to me the only game in town. It should be clear to everybody that the secondary evidence (films, footprints, eyewitnesses) is getting us nowhere in terms of establishing a consensus (or rather, challenging the existing mainstream consensus).

My points in my note were about academic freedom (I’m for it), rigorous investigation of unusual claims (for that too), and respect (ditto).

That last point is the take-home message. I quite agree that skeptics are occasionally dismissive or rude. That’s too bad — we shouldn’t be. But it is also the case that crypto folks are often only too happy to smear skeptics. That’s too bad, too. It doesn’t help.

(Incidentally, there are very few people alive today who have done more actual cryptozoological fieldwork, on-site investigation, or honest-ta-gosh experimentation than Ben Radford and his co-author Joe Nickell — to say nothing of the kind of academic and historical sleuthing, of the type I do, that they’ve also contributed to the record.)

Anyway, thanks again for the warm response. I appreciate it.

MDI/WVBIG: Yup. And ain’t it a shame. Of course the behavior of few of our species is more predictable than that of the run of scientists and academicians. They just run in cycles of sitting on their haunches and proclaiming the world, finally, FLAT. Then, ROUND. Maybe we’re coming back to a FLAT cycle here.

The only thing that leads to good science is questing. And questing some more. The sas is worth a quest, I think, even if the run of scientists don’t.

“The simple fact is that reputable scientists HAVE examined Bigfoot evidence…”

Well, yes, Ben. And you’ll want to mention, as I do, the ones that have found it conclusive that yep, we have an unknown ape here.

Look, I’m not saying we do. Just that I am absolutely unaware of anything unknown that seems to be better known, is all.

“True, scientists may have ideological biases, but ultimately science, scientists, and research money follow where the RESULTS are.”

Hmmm. Well, then, Ben, considering all the evidence (I didn’t say scientific, can’t be scientific without scientists, can it?), I’d say that the RESULTS from sas research could be earth-shattering. (Imagine, say, the protected lands of the US and Canada, and oh what the hey, Central Asia too, being, say, tripled, quadrupled, even quintupled, based on fuller knowledge of the habits of one or more species of huge, nomadic, near-human primates, to name just one RESULT.) Compared to what could result from the discovery of these animals, one might say that most of the academic moolah being spent on primatology now is being tragically MISspent. As in, sure not directed toward RESULTS.

Nope, we have something here that any sane scientist would want to be pursuing. And some may be champing at the bit too, but for the consequences they fear from the Sciensish Inquisition.

Now for some sane scientists. Some sane science. Dare we hold our breath? (In a world where people still think global warming a controversial theory….? Um, maybe not, eh?)

“For example, Meldrum spends much of his new “scientific” book, Sasquatch, examining the Patterson/Gimlin film. This is not science, this is not testable, this is historical analysis. No hard evidence can come from re-examining a film from 40 years ago. Surely Jeff must know that.”

Well, um, hey, Ben. What you are saying here — no, you are — is that any scientific evidence over 40 years old is no longer any good! That would mine away all the bedrock on which, well, science is pretty much based. What I said is what we want to focus on here. P-G has never, ever, been debunked. And scientists have tried. It is evidence, until the learned analyses that pronounce it genuine scientific evidence — or those that hedge, as one individual does, because although the evidence should convince him (he says), he just can’t believe something like this exists — have been counter-argued away. They have not been. The P-G film is most certainly “testable,” over and over and over again. It’s right there, man. Tell me it’s not an unknown species of primate, or tell me you can’t tell. But don’t tell me the film isn’t more than clear enough to allow the analysis to be made.

“…an acclaimed Bigfoot body print later revealed to be an impression of an elk…”

I presume you mean the Skookum cast, which was conclusively determined, very early on, NOT to be just that. Two tenured university-style physical anthropologists — one professor emeritus, University of Washington — have said, straight out, that it was made by a large unknown primate. No qualifier. Unless you’re in possession of evidence to the contrary.

“The simple fact is that reputable scientists HAVE examined Bigfoot evidence (the Manitoba Bigfoot hair analysis last year jumps to mind). The problem is that the evidence doesn’t lead anywhere, so of course scientists aren’t eager to pursue what has historically been a clear dead end.”

Right. For SOME of the evidence. As long as there’s any for which no conclusion can be made, or that hasn’t been analyzed (and there are, as I’ve said, metric tons of that), then…well, somebody needs to get off his/her duff and analyze it.

So say George Schaller and Jane Goodall, two names before which scientists everywhere genuflect. Two scientists as scientific as scientists get.

Skeptical? Fine. ANALYZE THE EVIDENCE. Refute the analyses that have already pronounced some of it genuine. Then rejoin our program, which will be, as always, in progress.

Of course the pursuit of the sas isn’t as scientific as any of us would like. The reason? Too few scientists, chasing way too much evidence.

If science has the gall to take credit for its eventual “discovery” of sas and his kin, you will be able to tell, just by smelling it, the evidence I leave. “Hmmmm. This smells like lunch, plus two fingers.”

That, MDI, is on.

” …I have always supported the scientific pursuit of Bigfoot. It’s a shame that so little of it actually IS scientific…”

That, Ben, is on. And way off.

If there’s one thing that is really NOT scientific, and so NOT like science, it’s the arrogant (or we’re-too-busy, take yer pick) dismissal of the multi-metric-tons of evidence — much if not most of it quite susceptible to scientific analysis — for the existence of nonhuman upright hominoids. (The sheer quantity, quality and range of sightings alone — with the police-lineup consistency they display across distance and time — counts, most definitely, as evidence.) Yet there are STILL scientists saying there is virtually no evidence. Maybe if they’d lift their gaze from their obsession with the latest micro-subspecies of mouse lemur, they might change their minds.

Sas (and kin) have indeed been done a grave disservice by the pyramid-power Newage (rhymes with Sewage) tabloid cabals that put him skating between dimensions or riding the Mother Ship in the company of Elvis. But there’s tons of other stuff to analyze fer the existence of a simple ol’ APE, ferpetesake.

Like, for instance, the Patterson film, evidence if ever such has been seen.

I understand why Meldrum spends so much time on it. (Haven’t bought the book, although tempted.) IT’S NEVER BEEN SCIENTIFICALLY DEBUNKED, yet the story is continually out there that it long-ago has been. No it hasn’t; Meldrum’s (and Krantz’s, among others using the scientific method) analysis indicates that

(a) there’s no zipper and

(b) this thing ain’t human. It’s not “grainy.”

If a spotted skunk were in that video, you’d know what subspecies; if a species of bear no one had seen before…well, it would long since be in the scientific inventory. It’s worth reminding people that this is a clear piece of evidence, and that no one applying true scientific analysis to it has yet said otherwise. (If so, Ben, enlighten us; for such is your task, if you choose to dismiss it. Roll those sleeves up and let us see some hard work.)

I agree with you, Ben. Skepticism is hard work.

Debunking the Skookum cast? Exposing as fakes numerous track casts that are most definitely not fakes, so far as anyone applying the scientific method has been able to determine? Deep-sixing the P-G film?

That, Ben, is REALLY, REALLY hard work.

Apparently, although please do steer us straight if we’re wrong. For such is the task of the true skeptic. As you so rightly point out.

If Mr. Radford is referring to the “Initial” analysis of a “Copy” of the Skookum cast reported about on “Bigfoot Forums” I’d hardly consider that case closed.

True, scientists may have ideological biases, but ultimately science, scientists, and research money follow where the RESULTS are. What, exactly, are scientists (real, working scientists) supposed to do with the hundreds of sighting reports, inconclusive photos, hair, and tracks, and an acclaimed Bigfoot body print later revealed to be an impression of an elk?

For example, Meldrum spends much of his new “scientific” book, Sasquatch, examining the Patterson/Gimlin film. This is not science, this is not testable, this is historical analysis. No hard evidence can come from re-examining a film from 40 years ago. Surely Jeff must know that.

The simple fact is that reputable scientists HAVE examined Bigfoot evidence (the Manitoba Bigfoot hair analysis last year jumps to mind). The problem is that the evidence doesn’t lead anywhere, so of course scientists aren’t eager to pursue what has historically been a clear dead end.

Cabochris noted that, “After all, anyone can be a Skeptic! It is the safe and easy path.” I have to wonder what s/he is talking about… that statement could not be further from the truth, and could only have come from someone unfamiliar with real skepticism.

Skepticism and critically evaluating evidence is hard, laborious work! It is blind faith and belief that is safe and easy, such as, “I know for a fact Bigfoot exists because I saw one.”

Effectively critiquing your (and others’) evidence and arguments is hard work!

The scientific method was the tool that fueled the resurgence of free thought during the Renaissance. Skeptical inquiry was key to conquering the Inquisition and its enforcement of superstition and obligation to an unaccountable institution. The university was the home for free thought and discourse. Seems that the roles have become reversed.

Anyone who hasn’t been on a major college campus recently would not comprehend the intolerance directed toward unconventional thought. Political Correctness and Secular Scientific Doctrine have become sacred. Woe to the person who dares challenge the accepted modern scripture as set out by insulated professors beholden to the preservation of their positions.

Just as the Medieval Bishops and Cardinals were insulated from the progress of science because of their willful blindness, modern academia seems determined to make the same blunder. In order to survive into the modern era, the church had to abandon indefensible positions and adopt a less strident interpretation of doctrine. The modern university is rapidly approaching that same predicament” I wonder if all of the scientists who claim not to believe in Bigfoot are truly skeptical or are just afraid of repercussions from their colleagues and/or the institutions they work for.

And this is all to the good.

Mr. Loxton sounds like the kind of skeptic all of us could use more of. What tips them is what should tip anybody: evidence.

My Great Reservation on Bigfoot: how could there be all this evidence and no scientists on the bandwagon? (Although of course there are some, see Meldrum and Krantz, and some who desperately want to be, see Schaller and Goodall.)

I’m hoping skeptics like Loxton get science to hunt down this dark horse.

Um, ape.