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	<title>Comments on: Lawndale Thunderbird Abduction: A New Discovery</title>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 03:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: StaindHand</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/lawndale07/#comment-33279</link>
		<dc:creator>StaindHand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 04:40:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>My camping buddies and I actually sighted a "thunderbird" in the forests of Mount Harriman, NY. My best friend was the first to point it out, perched at the tip of a tall tree not far from the road we were on around early afternoon in the summer of 97. It didn't linger very long and if I had to guess at a wingspan, I would say anywhere between ten to sixteen feet across.

Turkey vultures are sighted regularly in this area and I can't certainly tell the difference between the two. It did not have a white ring around its neck as in this report but the feathers were a uniform black throughout and looked more like a giant crow than a bald eagle, although the silhouette of the head was more along the lines of an eagle, I suppose.

I don't think humans need fear these birds as, even with their immense wingspan, they could not support our unbalanced bodies long enough to bring a human victim to its roost for feeding. I am sure this is the reason the Lowe boy was dropped after a few feet, with his struggling and clumsy flailing urged the animal to preserve itself and find more easily subdues prey.

We make regular trips to Mount Harriman every summer since encountering this animal in the hopes of being able to capture footage or even shoot the thing out of the air if necessary and have not been fortunate enough to sight the elusive creature again. We maintain hope in seeing it again, nevertheless.

On an unrelated note, I have noticed in the last few years, the emergence of hawks bearing the coloration of a common rock dove (aka, pigeon). Again, this is not a matter of misidentification, as I have seen them perched on shop awnings no more than ten feet from the street below, way too big to be pigeons and the beaks and heads are all wrong for the verminous species.

Is it possible this is a result of adaptation or mimicry, as the predatory birds are introduced into urban populations to control the pigeon population or is it a species of raptor that just happens to share a similar pattern as the rock dove. I am open to opinions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My camping buddies and I actually sighted a &#8220;thunderbird&#8221; in the forests of Mount Harriman, NY. My best friend was the first to point it out, perched at the tip of a tall tree not far from the road we were on around early afternoon in the summer of 97. It didn&#8217;t linger very long and if I had to guess at a wingspan, I would say anywhere between ten to sixteen feet across.</p>
<p>Turkey vultures are sighted regularly in this area and I can&#8217;t certainly tell the difference between the two. It did not have a white ring around its neck as in this report but the feathers were a uniform black throughout and looked more like a giant crow than a bald eagle, although the silhouette of the head was more along the lines of an eagle, I suppose.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think humans need fear these birds as, even with their immense wingspan, they could not support our unbalanced bodies long enough to bring a human victim to its roost for feeding. I am sure this is the reason the Lowe boy was dropped after a few feet, with his struggling and clumsy flailing urged the animal to preserve itself and find more easily subdues prey.</p>
<p>We make regular trips to Mount Harriman every summer since encountering this animal in the hopes of being able to capture footage or even shoot the thing out of the air if necessary and have not been fortunate enough to sight the elusive creature again. We maintain hope in seeing it again, nevertheless.</p>
<p>On an unrelated note, I have noticed in the last few years, the emergence of hawks bearing the coloration of a common rock dove (aka, pigeon). Again, this is not a matter of misidentification, as I have seen them perched on shop awnings no more than ten feet from the street below, way too big to be pigeons and the beaks and heads are all wrong for the verminous species.</p>
<p>Is it possible this is a result of adaptation or mimicry, as the predatory birds are introduced into urban populations to control the pigeon population or is it a species of raptor that just happens to share a similar pattern as the rock dove. I am open to opinions.</p>
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		<title>By: rsswope</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/lawndale07/#comment-33278</link>
		<dc:creator>rsswope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2007 02:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/lawndale07/#comment-33278</guid>
		<description>I saw a Giant bird at Erie County Memorial Gardens in Erie pa in July of 2001. It was dark grey/black with a white ring around the neck and an extended hooked beak. It did not look like an Andean Condor. It did not look like anything I have seen before or since. At first I thought it might have been a Great Blue Heron since they are common in the area. But the body, color, and size was all wrong. The bird I saw was blackish grey except for the tuff of white around the neck. I estimated it's size to be around a 20 foot wingspan because it crossed in front of a large electrical tower as it flew by and the length that it eclipsed was about 17 feet.

     I think there is some confusion over the tuff of white around the neck if what I saw was of the same species that we are discussing here. I have spent my life in the outdoors, and I have never seen anything quite as boggling as this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw a Giant bird at Erie County Memorial Gardens in Erie pa in July of 2001. It was dark grey/black with a white ring around the neck and an extended hooked beak. It did not look like an Andean Condor. It did not look like anything I have seen before or since. At first I thought it might have been a Great Blue Heron since they are common in the area. But the body, color, and size was all wrong. The bird I saw was blackish grey except for the tuff of white around the neck. I estimated it&#8217;s size to be around a 20 foot wingspan because it crossed in front of a large electrical tower as it flew by and the length that it eclipsed was about 17 feet.</p>
<p>     I think there is some confusion over the tuff of white around the neck if what I saw was of the same species that we are discussing here. I have spent my life in the outdoors, and I have never seen anything quite as boggling as this.</p>
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		<title>By: aastra</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/lawndale07/#comment-33277</link>
		<dc:creator>aastra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 21:46:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/lawndale07/#comment-33277</guid>
		<description>1) Do large birds of prey sometimes attack people (in particular, small children)?
Of course they do. Why wouldn't they?

-

2) Do large birds of prey sometimes make mistakes re: how much their quarry weighs and whether or not they can carry it away?
Of course they do. Why wouldn't they?

-

3) Do outsized members of otherwise well documented raptor/condor species exist?
Of course they do. Why wouldn't they? A more relevant question: just how outsized do outsized raptors get?

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4) Could the largest living golden eagle (for example) be so much larger than the average golden eagle as to impress or even confound some human observers?
Of course it could. Why couldn't it? And if the human observers in question were being attacked by the outsized golden eagle in question, the bird probably wouldn't need to be very much larger than average in order to &lt;em&gt;appear&lt;/em&gt; very much larger than average.

-

5) Do extremely large, uncatalogued birds of prey exist?
Who knows? Maybe. But it seems to me that the bulk of the raptors-attacking-people reports don't require the existence of an unknown species in order to be credible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) Do large birds of prey sometimes attack people (in particular, small children)?<br />
Of course they do. Why wouldn&#8217;t they?</p>
<p>-</p>
<p>2) Do large birds of prey sometimes make mistakes re: how much their quarry weighs and whether or not they can carry it away?<br />
Of course they do. Why wouldn&#8217;t they?</p>
<p>-</p>
<p>3) Do outsized members of otherwise well documented raptor/condor species exist?<br />
Of course they do. Why wouldn&#8217;t they? A more relevant question: just how outsized do outsized raptors get?</p>
<p>-</p>
<p>4) Could the largest living golden eagle (for example) be so much larger than the average golden eagle as to impress or even confound some human observers?<br />
Of course it could. Why couldn&#8217;t it? And if the human observers in question were being attacked by the outsized golden eagle in question, the bird probably wouldn&#8217;t need to be very much larger than average in order to <em>appear</em> very much larger than average.</p>
<p>-</p>
<p>5) Do extremely large, uncatalogued birds of prey exist?<br />
Who knows? Maybe. But it seems to me that the bulk of the raptors-attacking-people reports don&#8217;t require the existence of an unknown species in order to be credible.</p>
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		<title>By: Lyndon</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/lawndale07/#comment-33276</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyndon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 07:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>springheeledjack,

I don't know if it was the footage that appeared on Discovery but here in England it was an episode of a series called 'In Search Of Myths And Monsters' and yes it was an episode about thunderbirds.

The footage was taken by a native American man, while he was canoing I believe. I think it was from the late 1970s. There are two birds that are clearly seen flying around. They do indeed look huge and could well have a ten foot wingspan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>springheeledjack,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if it was the footage that appeared on Discovery but here in England it was an episode of a series called &#8216;In Search Of Myths And Monsters&#8217; and yes it was an episode about thunderbirds.</p>
<p>The footage was taken by a native American man, while he was canoing I believe. I think it was from the late 1970s. There are two birds that are clearly seen flying around. They do indeed look huge and could well have a ten foot wingspan.</p>
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		<title>By: Carol Maltby</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/lawndale07/#comment-33275</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Maltby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 05:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/lawndale07/#comment-33275</guid>
		<description>Anyone have any thoughts about the changing behavior of turkey buzzards? I'm up in the Catskill Mountains where we always have a lot of them enjoying the thermals.

But recently I've seen a lot more of them just hunkered down on the ground at the side of the road, not moving when I drive by. While walking to the car a couple of times I flinched  as a very large shadow passed over me, indicating it was flying quite low at the time.

Weather's been pretty temperate, not too much sun, not too much rain, temperature pretty comfortable. No change in the cariion that's around.

Any idea what's making them less shy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone have any thoughts about the changing behavior of turkey buzzards? I&#8217;m up in the Catskill Mountains where we always have a lot of them enjoying the thermals.</p>
<p>But recently I&#8217;ve seen a lot more of them just hunkered down on the ground at the side of the road, not moving when I drive by. While walking to the car a couple of times I flinched  as a very large shadow passed over me, indicating it was flying quite low at the time.</p>
<p>Weather&#8217;s been pretty temperate, not too much sun, not too much rain, temperature pretty comfortable. No change in the cariion that&#8217;s around.</p>
<p>Any idea what&#8217;s making them less shy?</p>
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		<title>By: springheeledjack</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/lawndale07/#comment-33274</link>
		<dc:creator>springheeledjack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 03:40:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/lawndale07/#comment-33274</guid>
		<description>Lyndon,

was the footage of the large birds from the Discovery Channel episode on Thunderbirds?  If so, I have seen that footage too--and while it is hard to get an estimate of size, they look big.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lyndon,</p>
<p>was the footage of the large birds from the Discovery Channel episode on Thunderbirds?  If so, I have seen that footage too&#8211;and while it is hard to get an estimate of size, they look big.</p>
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		<title>By: skeptik</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/lawndale07/#comment-33273</link>
		<dc:creator>skeptik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:08:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>There's a famous and true story in Norway (1932) about an Eagle that took a three year old child (old lady in the picture) to its nest for seven hours before a rescue team found her:
http://www.dagbladet.no/magasinet/2007/06/05/502604.html

There's a problem about the so-called weight-evidence similar to Nasa's problems. Apparently she weighed 19 pounds (9,6 kg) and not 19 kilograms at the time.

In addition, the Sami people of Northern Norway are reporting an increase of Sea Eagle's snatching reindeer calves, but this has yet to be proven (some claim they just say that for government compensation).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a famous and true story in Norway (1932) about an Eagle that took a three year old child (old lady in the picture) to its nest for seven hours before a rescue team found her:<br />
<a href="http://www.dagbladet.no/magasinet/2007/06/05/502604.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.dagbladet.no/magasinet/2007/06/05/502604.html</a></p>
<p>There&#8217;s a problem about the so-called weight-evidence similar to Nasa&#8217;s problems. Apparently she weighed 19 pounds (9,6 kg) and not 19 kilograms at the time.</p>
<p>In addition, the Sami people of Northern Norway are reporting an increase of Sea Eagle&#8217;s snatching reindeer calves, but this has yet to be proven (some claim they just say that for government compensation).</p>
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		<title>By: MattBille</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/lawndale07/#comment-33271</link>
		<dc:creator>MattBille</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:00:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/lawndale07/#comment-33271</guid>
		<description>Those who know my writing know I am cautious about cryptid claims in general and Thunderbirds in particular, but I never saw any reason to doubt that the Lanwndale incident happned.  Some details, such as wingspan, how high the bird got carrying its "prey," and how long it managed to keep him aloft, were likely (unintentionally)  stretched by the shocked witnesses, but I think there's a core of fact in that case.  I picture it as a freak occurrence where two eagles, possibly released/escaped exotics of the very powerful S. American type mentioned above, spotted the prey some way off and came out of at least a slight stoop (increasing their speed in level flight well above the average) and one grabbed the kid and, trading its forward momentum for upward momentum and flapping like mad, got him just off the ground for a couple of seconds before realizing it had something too heavy to carry off and letting go of him.

There's no entirely satisfactory explanation of this case, but that reconstruction comes closest to working for me.

Now, what if this was not some exotic but known eagle species?  What are our other options?

Golden eagles or juvenile bald eagles could be suspects, although their size and weight-carrying capability does not seem to match.

Audobon's Washington eagle just might work, if it is a species.

It's always been impossible for me  to accept that plane-sized Thunderbirds have never been captured clearly on film or video and their giant feathers, nests, or eggshells have never been found.  However, the eagle might survive undiscovered.  as it would often be mistaken for an unusually large golden eagle or young bald eagle, and its feathers, nests, and eggshells would look like large versions of those left by the known native eagles.  The white neck feathers might be just an occasional variation that turns up in this species.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those who know my writing know I am cautious about cryptid claims in general and Thunderbirds in particular, but I never saw any reason to doubt that the Lanwndale incident happned.  Some details, such as wingspan, how high the bird got carrying its &#8220;prey,&#8221; and how long it managed to keep him aloft, were likely (unintentionally)  stretched by the shocked witnesses, but I think there&#8217;s a core of fact in that case.  I picture it as a freak occurrence where two eagles, possibly released/escaped exotics of the very powerful S. American type mentioned above, spotted the prey some way off and came out of at least a slight stoop (increasing their speed in level flight well above the average) and one grabbed the kid and, trading its forward momentum for upward momentum and flapping like mad, got him just off the ground for a couple of seconds before realizing it had something too heavy to carry off and letting go of him.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s no entirely satisfactory explanation of this case, but that reconstruction comes closest to working for me.</p>
<p>Now, what if this was not some exotic but known eagle species?  What are our other options?</p>
<p>Golden eagles or juvenile bald eagles could be suspects, although their size and weight-carrying capability does not seem to match.</p>
<p>Audobon&#8217;s Washington eagle just might work, if it is a species.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s always been impossible for me  to accept that plane-sized Thunderbirds have never been captured clearly on film or video and their giant feathers, nests, or eggshells have never been found.  However, the eagle might survive undiscovered.  as it would often be mistaken for an unusually large golden eagle or young bald eagle, and its feathers, nests, and eggshells would look like large versions of those left by the known native eagles.  The white neck feathers might be just an occasional variation that turns up in this species.</p>
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		<title>By: titantim</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/lawndale07/#comment-33272</link>
		<dc:creator>titantim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I have seen Golden Eagles in Wyoming swoop down and grab 50-60lb antelope. They have a hard time flying with them and usually don't get far but if they will tackle an animal that size then a small child wouldn't be out of the question. Especially for a bird that is supposed to be bigger than an eagle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have seen Golden Eagles in Wyoming swoop down and grab 50-60lb antelope. They have a hard time flying with them and usually don&#8217;t get far but if they will tackle an animal that size then a small child wouldn&#8217;t be out of the question. Especially for a bird that is supposed to be bigger than an eagle.</p>
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		<title>By: Lyndon</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/lawndale07/#comment-33270</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyndon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Yea, ummm….

Vulture/Buzzard flies down and buzzes kid.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
The kid supposedly had marks on him.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Bird and story grow with every person that tells it.

Not buying it, sorry….&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I haven't heard anybody else tell it. I have however seen footage of the mother and son talk about the incident some 25 years later and the bird didn't grow from their original report in 1977.

I've also seen footage of two huge birds taken by an amatuer photographer not too far from that location.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Yea, ummm….</p>
<p>Vulture/Buzzard flies down and buzzes kid.</p></blockquote>
<p>The kid supposedly had marks on him.</p>
<blockquote><p>Bird and story grow with every person that tells it.</p>
<p>Not buying it, sorry….</p></blockquote>
<p>I haven&#8217;t heard anybody else tell it. I have however seen footage of the mother and son talk about the incident some 25 years later and the bird didn&#8217;t grow from their original report in 1977.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also seen footage of two huge birds taken by an amatuer photographer not too far from that location.</p>
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