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	<title>Comments on: Jurassic Ink Sac Discovered&#8230;Fresh In Stone</title>
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	<description>for Bigfoot, Loch Ness, and More</description>
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		<title>By: Matt_J</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jurassic-sac/comment-page-1/#comment-58339</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt_J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Again, if the tree is in a low-oxygen environment (like peat bogs), you can stack more and more layers on top of it and it won&#039;t rot but will be buried and slowly fossilized over time.  Dig out a coal seam in Illinois, and fossilized tree trunks fall out of the ceiling onto your head.  Presumably, the trees were tall in ancient times.  

Meteorites hitting the earth are rare.  They&#039;ve probably been pretty rare for a long time.  Take 100 geological columns, probably all of them won&#039;t have a meteorite in them.  Take 1,000, again, probably still no meteorites.  This doesn&#039;t prove that it hasn&#039;t happened.  This proves that it hasn&#039;t happened &lt;i&gt;in that spot&lt;/i&gt;.  

However, there are craters, craters everywhere.  Ancient, eroded and weatherworn craters, as far as the eye can see.  Apparently, these don&#039;t count as meteorite strikes--and even some of these don&#039;t have space rocks laying in the bottom of them because they eroded away or were vaporized upon impact.  We need an explanation!  God&#039;s pogo stick?  Clearly, that&#039;s a more sane and logical explanation</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, if the tree is in a low-oxygen environment (like peat bogs), you can stack more and more layers on top of it and it won&#8217;t rot but will be buried and slowly fossilized over time.  Dig out a coal seam in Illinois, and fossilized tree trunks fall out of the ceiling onto your head.  Presumably, the trees were tall in ancient times.  </p>
<p>Meteorites hitting the earth are rare.  They&#8217;ve probably been pretty rare for a long time.  Take 100 geological columns, probably all of them won&#8217;t have a meteorite in them.  Take 1,000, again, probably still no meteorites.  This doesn&#8217;t prove that it hasn&#8217;t happened.  This proves that it hasn&#8217;t happened <i>in that spot</i>.  </p>
<p>However, there are craters, craters everywhere.  Ancient, eroded and weatherworn craters, as far as the eye can see.  Apparently, these don&#8217;t count as meteorite strikes&#8211;and even some of these don&#8217;t have space rocks laying in the bottom of them because they eroded away or were vaporized upon impact.  We need an explanation!  God&#8217;s pogo stick?  Clearly, that&#8217;s a more sane and logical explanation</p>
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		<title>By: Matt_J</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jurassic-sac/comment-page-1/#comment-58338</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt_J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=20483#comment-58338</guid>
		<description>If it&#039;s buried in an anaerobic and cool environment, then there&#039;s no light, heat nor oxygen to degrade the proteins.  Once it gets locked into a piece of stone, it&#039;s pretty well preserved.

That being said...if it&#039;s over 150 million years old, there should be no carbon-14 left in it.  Do a test and see how that pans out.  Of course, if there&#039;s zero carbon-14, that proves that it&#039;s merely older than 35,000 years, well short of it 150 million age.  And even if that happens, there will be those who claim the results are faked.

Still, it&#039;s a starting point on proof of age.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it&#8217;s buried in an anaerobic and cool environment, then there&#8217;s no light, heat nor oxygen to degrade the proteins.  Once it gets locked into a piece of stone, it&#8217;s pretty well preserved.</p>
<p>That being said&#8230;if it&#8217;s over 150 million years old, there should be no carbon-14 left in it.  Do a test and see how that pans out.  Of course, if there&#8217;s zero carbon-14, that proves that it&#8217;s merely older than 35,000 years, well short of it 150 million age.  And even if that happens, there will be those who claim the results are faked.</p>
<p>Still, it&#8217;s a starting point on proof of age.</p>
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		<title>By: Fhqwhgads</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jurassic-sac/comment-page-1/#comment-58335</link>
		<dc:creator>Fhqwhgads</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=20483#comment-58335</guid>
		<description>Let me just take up the meteorite question: 

We do.  At least if you count tektites, which are found, for instance, in association with the KT extinction event.  Iron meteorites would presumably stand a good chance of rusting away rather than being preserved for the ages.  Other meteorites look pretty much like any other rock, which is one of the reasons we don&#039;t find many on the surface today and find them most easily in places like Antarctica where they really stand out. 

As for erosion, I have no idea what you&#039;re talking about, since erosion (and its byproduct, sedimentation) is evident in the geologic record. 

I don&#039;t know about the tree, but I&#039;ll go out on a limb of that tree and say you don&#039;t either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me just take up the meteorite question: </p>
<p>We do.  At least if you count tektites, which are found, for instance, in association with the KT extinction event.  Iron meteorites would presumably stand a good chance of rusting away rather than being preserved for the ages.  Other meteorites look pretty much like any other rock, which is one of the reasons we don&#8217;t find many on the surface today and find them most easily in places like Antarctica where they really stand out. </p>
<p>As for erosion, I have no idea what you&#8217;re talking about, since erosion (and its byproduct, sedimentation) is evident in the geologic record. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know about the tree, but I&#8217;ll go out on a limb of that tree and say you don&#8217;t either.</p>
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		<title>By: Terrell H King</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jurassic-sac/comment-page-1/#comment-58334</link>
		<dc:creator>Terrell H King</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 12:41:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=20483#comment-58334</guid>
		<description>“It is difficult to imagine how you can have something as soft and sloppy as an ink sac fossilised in three dimension, still black, and inside a rock that is 150 million years old.”

It is difficult to imagine, like why we don&#039;t find much in the way of meteorites in the geologic column sections, or erosion marks, or trying to imagine how a tree can be fossilized vertically through many layers (even through two coal seams) like we see all over the world, in the standard uniformitarian geologic column model.

Here&#039;s somethig a wee bit controversial - maybe the rock isn&#039;t 150 millions years old!

Oh no, I realise I&#039;ve just resigned myself to becoming a scientific pariah, being kicked out of my zoology studies and having to join the ranks of rational people that dared question the geologic column bible, in being branded an &#039;uneducated, religious maniac&#039;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“It is difficult to imagine how you can have something as soft and sloppy as an ink sac fossilised in three dimension, still black, and inside a rock that is 150 million years old.”</p>
<p>It is difficult to imagine, like why we don&#8217;t find much in the way of meteorites in the geologic column sections, or erosion marks, or trying to imagine how a tree can be fossilized vertically through many layers (even through two coal seams) like we see all over the world, in the standard uniformitarian geologic column model.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s somethig a wee bit controversial &#8211; maybe the rock isn&#8217;t 150 millions years old!</p>
<p>Oh no, I realise I&#8217;ve just resigned myself to becoming a scientific pariah, being kicked out of my zoology studies and having to join the ranks of rational people that dared question the geologic column bible, in being branded an &#8216;uneducated, religious maniac&#8217;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Quacker1</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jurassic-sac/comment-page-1/#comment-58333</link>
		<dc:creator>Quacker1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 07:41:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well, when &#039;soft&#039; tissue was found in an ancient T-Rex fossil, the tissue was fossilized and had to have the mineralized portions removed while the rest was re-hydrated. I haven&#039;t been able to find specifics on this squid case, but I figure something similar has occurred here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, when &#8217;soft&#8217; tissue was found in an ancient T-Rex fossil, the tissue was fossilized and had to have the mineralized portions removed while the rest was re-hydrated. I haven&#8217;t been able to find specifics on this squid case, but I figure something similar has occurred here.</p>
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		<title>By: Fhqwhgads</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jurassic-sac/comment-page-1/#comment-58320</link>
		<dc:creator>Fhqwhgads</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=20483#comment-58320</guid>
		<description>Regarding the 8 million year old bacterium -- it would be very, very hard to prove that this was not a more recent bacterium that was introduced through contamination. 

If the ink sack had been preserved as some sort of greasy stain, no problem.  If some of its proteins had somehow survived, as they are reported to in the bones of T. Rex, maybe.  (I think those claims are still disputed.)  But for the ink to remain liquid for 100+ million years?  Get real.  And even if something like that were found, it would be a valuable insight into the biochemistry of Jurassic cephalopods.  No paleontologist worth his fedora would think of wasting the sample for something a stupid as drawing a picture. 

BOGUS!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the 8 million year old bacterium &#8212; it would be very, very hard to prove that this was not a more recent bacterium that was introduced through contamination. </p>
<p>If the ink sack had been preserved as some sort of greasy stain, no problem.  If some of its proteins had somehow survived, as they are reported to in the bones of T. Rex, maybe.  (I think those claims are still disputed.)  But for the ink to remain liquid for 100+ million years?  Get real.  And even if something like that were found, it would be a valuable insight into the biochemistry of Jurassic cephalopods.  No paleontologist worth his fedora would think of wasting the sample for something a stupid as drawing a picture. </p>
<p>BOGUS!</p>
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		<title>By: cryptidsrus</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jurassic-sac/comment-page-1/#comment-58317</link>
		<dc:creator>cryptidsrus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Great story and discovery. 

Interesting ancestor of the Squid and Octopus, I must say. 

That&#039;s nothing. Around 2007 (if I remember correctly) a bacterium that had lain dormant for 8 million years (I think) in Ice Core samples taken from a &quot;lake&quot; in Antarctica were succesfully revived and as far as I know, still live. Barely, but they live. Apparently they don&#039;t need to be &quot;fed&quot; all the time. So this news is still Great but not totally surprising. 
Who&#039;da thunk it, anyway. :) Thanks, Loren.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great story and discovery. </p>
<p>Interesting ancestor of the Squid and Octopus, I must say. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s nothing. Around 2007 (if I remember correctly) a bacterium that had lain dormant for 8 million years (I think) in Ice Core samples taken from a &#8220;lake&#8221; in Antarctica were succesfully revived and as far as I know, still live. Barely, but they live. Apparently they don&#8217;t need to be &#8220;fed&#8221; all the time. So this news is still Great but not totally surprising.<br />
Who&#8217;da thunk it, anyway. <img src='http://www.cryptomundo.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Thanks, Loren.</p>
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		<title>By: sschaper</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jurassic-sac/comment-page-1/#comment-58315</link>
		<dc:creator>sschaper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:00:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Non-fossilized soft tissue can&#039;t last a hundredth of that time. Proteins break down over time due to physical effects. Ergo those particular fossil beds have to be in the thousands to tens of thousands of years in age, if those are *non-fossilized* soft tissues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Non-fossilized soft tissue can&#8217;t last a hundredth of that time. Proteins break down over time due to physical effects. Ergo those particular fossil beds have to be in the thousands to tens of thousands of years in age, if those are *non-fossilized* soft tissues.</p>
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		<title>By: bigfootsdad</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jurassic-sac/comment-page-1/#comment-58300</link>
		<dc:creator>bigfootsdad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dr Wilby said: “They can be dissected as if they are living animals, you can see the muscle fibres and cells.

“It is difficult to imagine how you can have something as soft and sloppy as an ink sac fossilised in three dimension, still black, and inside a rock that is 150 million years old.” 

To say &quot;it is difficult to imagine&quot; for &quot;150 million years&quot; is an extreme understatement! Try imagining 150 million years. It would take a few life times. Another extreme understatement. Difficult to accept with a scientific mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr Wilby said: “They can be dissected as if they are living animals, you can see the muscle fibres and cells.</p>
<p>“It is difficult to imagine how you can have something as soft and sloppy as an ink sac fossilised in three dimension, still black, and inside a rock that is 150 million years old.” </p>
<p>To say &#8220;it is difficult to imagine&#8221; for &#8220;150 million years&#8221; is an extreme understatement! Try imagining 150 million years. It would take a few life times. Another extreme understatement. Difficult to accept with a scientific mind.</p>
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		<title>By: CryptoInformant 2.0</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jurassic-sac/comment-page-1/#comment-58295</link>
		<dc:creator>CryptoInformant 2.0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:19:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well, it&#039;s interesting that Belemnoteuthis had an ink sac, something posessed by its modern relatives, the squid and octopi - perhaps ammonites also had this adaptation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, it&#8217;s interesting that Belemnoteuthis had an ink sac, something posessed by its modern relatives, the squid and octopi &#8211; perhaps ammonites also had this adaptation?</p>
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