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	<title>Comments on: Jacobs Bear Superimposition</title>
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	<description>for Bigfoot, Loch Ness, and More</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 02:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: DWA</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jacobs-bear/#comment-36368</link>
		<dc:creator>DWA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 13:50:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jacobs-bear/#comment-36368</guid>
		<description>fallofrain:  exactly my point.

Don't overcomplicate Occam's Razor.

Two simple explanations.

Bear.

Or something else.

The "overcomplication" comes in complicating a simple explanation.  NEVER do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fallofrain:  exactly my point.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t overcomplicate Occam&#8217;s Razor.</p>
<p>Two simple explanations.</p>
<p>Bear.</p>
<p>Or something else.</p>
<p>The &#8220;overcomplication&#8221; comes in complicating a simple explanation.  NEVER do that.</p>
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		<title>By: mystery_man</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jacobs-bear/#comment-36367</link>
		<dc:creator>mystery_man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 03:30:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>zytebach- It's my pleasure to offer any information which I am able, for example about the ability for bears to take certain positions. Hope it is informative for anybody who may not be aware of it. Anyway, I understand what you were trying to say and I certainly do not want to "bash" what other people are seeing in the photos.  I agree that it is a good thing for us to all respect each other's opinions even when we don't agree. Anyway, I wish you luck with your field research! Maybe you will be the one to bring in the irrefutable photos we all want to see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>zytebach- It&#8217;s my pleasure to offer any information which I am able, for example about the ability for bears to take certain positions. Hope it is informative for anybody who may not be aware of it. Anyway, I understand what you were trying to say and I certainly do not want to &#8220;bash&#8221; what other people are seeing in the photos.  I agree that it is a good thing for us to all respect each other&#8217;s opinions even when we don&#8217;t agree. Anyway, I wish you luck with your field research! Maybe you will be the one to bring in the irrefutable photos we all want to see.</p>
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		<title>By: fallofrain</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jacobs-bear/#comment-36366</link>
		<dc:creator>fallofrain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 02:43:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jacobs-bear/#comment-36366</guid>
		<description>I wonder if the universe ends if you overcomplicate Occam's Razor?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if the universe ends if you overcomplicate Occam&#8217;s Razor?</p>
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		<title>By: DWA</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jacobs-bear/#comment-36365</link>
		<dc:creator>DWA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 22:36:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jacobs-bear/#comment-36365</guid>
		<description>sausage1:  inappropriate use of Occam's razor. TWWWWEEEEET!  15 yards!

You should expect horses, when you live in places where zebras don't run free.  In many areas of Africa, to think horse would be absurd.  Zebras would be the simplest explanation:  in almost no area of Africa where zebra are native are there sizable numbers of horses.

Once again we see the General Implausibility Theorem (GIT) at work.  There's only one reason that a sas wouldn't be as simple an explanation as a bear:  they, well, they, they, they....they DON'T EXIST!

Well, what if they do?  Then they've been a simple alternative explanation all along.

Right?

"Simple" does not mean "slightly more likely" or even "much more likely" on a percentage basis given population size.  Simple means simple.  If the shot clearly shows an okapi, then that the shot was taken in PA has no relevance.  Okapi is a simple explanation.  I mean, there it is.

It could be a bear.

Or it could be something else.

Whether we know the something else to exist or not has no impact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sausage1:  inappropriate use of Occam&#8217;s razor. TWWWWEEEEET!  15 yards!</p>
<p>You should expect horses, when you live in places where zebras don&#8217;t run free.  In many areas of Africa, to think horse would be absurd.  Zebras would be the simplest explanation:  in almost no area of Africa where zebra are native are there sizable numbers of horses.</p>
<p>Once again we see the General Implausibility Theorem (GIT) at work.  There&#8217;s only one reason that a sas wouldn&#8217;t be as simple an explanation as a bear:  they, well, they, they, they&#8230;.they DON&#8217;T EXIST!</p>
<p>Well, what if they do?  Then they&#8217;ve been a simple alternative explanation all along.</p>
<p>Right?</p>
<p>&#8220;Simple&#8221; does not mean &#8220;slightly more likely&#8221; or even &#8220;much more likely&#8221; on a percentage basis given population size.  Simple means simple.  If the shot clearly shows an okapi, then that the shot was taken in PA has no relevance.  Okapi is a simple explanation.  I mean, there it is.</p>
<p>It could be a bear.</p>
<p>Or it could be something else.</p>
<p>Whether we know the something else to exist or not has no impact.</p>
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		<title>By: sausage1</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jacobs-bear/#comment-36364</link>
		<dc:creator>sausage1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 21:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jacobs-bear/#comment-36364</guid>
		<description>I'm sure I read it here , so forgive my repeating it.

"If you hear hooves in the night, expect horses rather than zebra."

Occam and his razor again. Bear it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure I read it here , so forgive my repeating it.</p>
<p>&#8220;If you hear hooves in the night, expect horses rather than zebra.&#8221;</p>
<p>Occam and his razor again. Bear it is.</p>
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		<title>By: zytebac</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jacobs-bear/#comment-36363</link>
		<dc:creator>zytebac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 21:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jacobs-bear/#comment-36363</guid>
		<description>Mystery-man, on the contrary, I DO see a bigfoot when I look at these pics. Also, I am a firm believer in the sasquatch phenomonom and am an active participant in doing field research in my local area.
I'm glad you pointed out the fact that a bear can take the pose the second pic shows, since I have no bears where I live and have not studied them. Although I still have to say that I do not see a bear. :)
And all I was trying to convey is that we should respect each others opinions when it comes to trying to dissect these pictures. I hear and see a lot of bashing going on with regards as to what each of us think and it's not helping the cause. We should be allowed to post our opinions and forms of evidence without the fear of being ridiculed or villified, (although I'm not sure how to handle the hoaxers when it comes to evidence.) And maybe you are right, maybe we need to take these pictures for what they are, inconclusive, and move on.
As to what rayrich says about seeing a bear just to get people to leave the sasquatch alone, I think that the opposite is true. The sooner we prove the sasquatch exists, the sooner we can take legislative measures to protect it. And like Alligator points out, that it would likely, and unfortunately, take a body, is sadly the truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mystery-man, on the contrary, I DO see a bigfoot when I look at these pics. Also, I am a firm believer in the sasquatch phenomonom and am an active participant in doing field research in my local area.<br />
I&#8217;m glad you pointed out the fact that a bear can take the pose the second pic shows, since I have no bears where I live and have not studied them. Although I still have to say that I do not see a bear. <img src='http://www.cryptomundo.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> And all I was trying to convey is that we should respect each others opinions when it comes to trying to dissect these pictures. I hear and see a lot of bashing going on with regards as to what each of us think and it&#8217;s not helping the cause. We should be allowed to post our opinions and forms of evidence without the fear of being ridiculed or villified, (although I&#8217;m not sure how to handle the hoaxers when it comes to evidence.) And maybe you are right, maybe we need to take these pictures for what they are, inconclusive, and move on.<br />
As to what rayrich says about seeing a bear just to get people to leave the sasquatch alone, I think that the opposite is true. The sooner we prove the sasquatch exists, the sooner we can take legislative measures to protect it. And like Alligator points out, that it would likely, and unfortunately, take a body, is sadly the truth.</p>
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		<title>By: ithilien</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jacobs-bear/#comment-36362</link>
		<dc:creator>ithilien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 21:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jacobs-bear/#comment-36362</guid>
		<description>as an artist trained in digital photography i always cringe when someone says "it's a fraud!! it's been photoshopped!" this is an application that allows the user to enhance or alter an image, but that is not necessarily to say that the resulting image is therefore fraudulent.

the image of the bear has been digitally manipulated...turned to face the same direction as the mystery creature probably resized and superimposed i.e. layered over it at a reduced opacity so that both images are visible. The face of the bear has been selected and layered over the dark spot in the jacobs photo to show that the head of a bear could actually fit the shadowed area that exists there on the original photo.

so this is photoshopped image shows that the structure and posture of the bear could indeed fit the structure and posture of animal x.

Using this program we have been able to make some pretty convincing comparisons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>as an artist trained in digital photography i always cringe when someone says &#8220;it&#8217;s a fraud!! it&#8217;s been photoshopped!&#8221; this is an application that allows the user to enhance or alter an image, but that is not necessarily to say that the resulting image is therefore fraudulent.</p>
<p>the image of the bear has been digitally manipulated&#8230;turned to face the same direction as the mystery creature probably resized and superimposed i.e. layered over it at a reduced opacity so that both images are visible. The face of the bear has been selected and layered over the dark spot in the jacobs photo to show that the head of a bear could actually fit the shadowed area that exists there on the original photo.</p>
<p>so this is photoshopped image shows that the structure and posture of the bear could indeed fit the structure and posture of animal x.</p>
<p>Using this program we have been able to make some pretty convincing comparisons.</p>
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		<title>By: mystery_man</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jacobs-bear/#comment-36361</link>
		<dc:creator>mystery_man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 15:48:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jacobs-bear/#comment-36361</guid>
		<description>Or do that so that people leave this poor mangy bear alone, rayrich. Believers might keep the bear out of harm's way for now by accepting it's a bear. Take your pick. In the meantime, I'd like to see if we can find actually scientifically useful evidence in the discussion on bigfoot's existence. Some just cannot let a piece of inconclusive evidence be put aside without distorting that into some talk of "non believing". I would take some evidence that is critically examined and found to still be intriguing over some zealously embraced inconclusive evidence any day of the week. Once again, thinking that these photos are of a bear and "believing" in sasquatch have absolutely nothing to do with each other. The thought that someone who thinks Bigfoot is out there has to defend every piece of supposed evidence that comes up is a bit ridiculous. Think Loren and Meldrum also thinking this is a bear. Each piece of evidence on its own merit. Let's not make broad assumptions about people's openness to the existence of Bigfoot based on their appraisals of these photos.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or do that so that people leave this poor mangy bear alone, rayrich. Believers might keep the bear out of harm&#8217;s way for now by accepting it&#8217;s a bear. Take your pick. In the meantime, I&#8217;d like to see if we can find actually scientifically useful evidence in the discussion on bigfoot&#8217;s existence. Some just cannot let a piece of inconclusive evidence be put aside without distorting that into some talk of &#8220;non believing&#8221;. I would take some evidence that is critically examined and found to still be intriguing over some zealously embraced inconclusive evidence any day of the week. Once again, thinking that these photos are of a bear and &#8220;believing&#8221; in sasquatch have absolutely nothing to do with each other. The thought that someone who thinks Bigfoot is out there has to defend every piece of supposed evidence that comes up is a bit ridiculous. Think Loren and Meldrum also thinking this is a bear. Each piece of evidence on its own merit. Let&#8217;s not make broad assumptions about people&#8217;s openness to the existence of Bigfoot based on their appraisals of these photos.</p>
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		<title>By: rayrich</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jacobs-bear/#comment-36360</link>
		<dc:creator>rayrich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 10:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jacobs-bear/#comment-36360</guid>
		<description>I say we come to the conclusion that it's a mangy bear so everybody will leave this squatch alone. Non believers will keep the population of Sasquatches out of harms way for now. We should thank these people for the sake of this species survival.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I say we come to the conclusion that it&#8217;s a mangy bear so everybody will leave this squatch alone. Non believers will keep the population of Sasquatches out of harms way for now. We should thank these people for the sake of this species survival.</p>
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		<title>By: mystery_man</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jacobs-bear/#comment-36358</link>
		<dc:creator>mystery_man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 04:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/jacobs-bear/#comment-36358</guid>
		<description>zytebac- I think you may be misunderstanding a lack of belief that the Jacob's photos are of a sasquatch with a dismissal of sasquatch in general. A good deal of people who think these are of a bear DO think the sasquatch is out there. Saying that these photos are likely of a bear does not mean that we think sasquatch do not exist, just that these photos do not show one. Nobody is disputing the native claims or the existence of sasquatch. We are talking about this set of photos and what they show.

As to the posture, it is not something that a bear could not do. Same with the feet. Bears just do not have stiff, inflexible feet. Bears can take up a wide variety of postures and can be quite flexible. On the opposite side, we have no idea what positions a juvenile sasquatch would make. Not to say that a sasquatch could not, but a bear can so I do not see a need to toss the explanation that fits the known paradigm of wildlife in the area and a known holotype in favor of an unknown just yet. As for the hair of the creature, I don't know if we can really tell with this resolution just how "even" or "well groomed" the coat is.

A lot of unbiased facts point to this being a bear, so I don't understand how one could be seen as close minded for thinking that. I will not say with total certainty that it is a bear, as maybe juvenile sasquatch match up very closely with what a mangy bear looks like and we cannot see any of the defining features that would have ended this debate. But a great deal supports these as being a bear, the animal in the photos match up to a known holotype. In order to safely ignore a known animal that matches so many of the circumstances we see in these photos in favor of an unknown, there would have to be more evidence to that effect. Taking a well know paradigm and comparing to that to these photos is not being closed minded or biased, it is something required to do this in a scientific manner.  I do see what the others are saying about why these might not be a bear, but nothing really says these cannot be of a bear.

For me, to say it is a bear is not an absolute certainty. It is a best guess considering what I see, the circumstances of the photos, and what we know about bears versus what we do not know about sasquatch. Anyway, whether these are of a sasquatch or not, it has no direct bearing on the larger question of whether sasquatch exist or not. I really wish that people would not take those who rationally explain their reasons for thinking these are of a bear  and paint them wish the broad brush of being Bigfoot denialists of some kind. That couldn't be further from the truth. Thinking these are not juvenile sasquatch photos and thinking sasquatch do not exist are two very very different things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>zytebac- I think you may be misunderstanding a lack of belief that the Jacob&#8217;s photos are of a sasquatch with a dismissal of sasquatch in general. A good deal of people who think these are of a bear DO think the sasquatch is out there. Saying that these photos are likely of a bear does not mean that we think sasquatch do not exist, just that these photos do not show one. Nobody is disputing the native claims or the existence of sasquatch. We are talking about this set of photos and what they show.</p>
<p>As to the posture, it is not something that a bear could not do. Same with the feet. Bears just do not have stiff, inflexible feet. Bears can take up a wide variety of postures and can be quite flexible. On the opposite side, we have no idea what positions a juvenile sasquatch would make. Not to say that a sasquatch could not, but a bear can so I do not see a need to toss the explanation that fits the known paradigm of wildlife in the area and a known holotype in favor of an unknown just yet. As for the hair of the creature, I don&#8217;t know if we can really tell with this resolution just how &#8220;even&#8221; or &#8220;well groomed&#8221; the coat is.</p>
<p>A lot of unbiased facts point to this being a bear, so I don&#8217;t understand how one could be seen as close minded for thinking that. I will not say with total certainty that it is a bear, as maybe juvenile sasquatch match up very closely with what a mangy bear looks like and we cannot see any of the defining features that would have ended this debate. But a great deal supports these as being a bear, the animal in the photos match up to a known holotype. In order to safely ignore a known animal that matches so many of the circumstances we see in these photos in favor of an unknown, there would have to be more evidence to that effect. Taking a well know paradigm and comparing to that to these photos is not being closed minded or biased, it is something required to do this in a scientific manner.  I do see what the others are saying about why these might not be a bear, but nothing really says these cannot be of a bear.</p>
<p>For me, to say it is a bear is not an absolute certainty. It is a best guess considering what I see, the circumstances of the photos, and what we know about bears versus what we do not know about sasquatch. Anyway, whether these are of a sasquatch or not, it has no direct bearing on the larger question of whether sasquatch exist or not. I really wish that people would not take those who rationally explain their reasons for thinking these are of a bear  and paint them wish the broad brush of being Bigfoot denialists of some kind. That couldn&#8217;t be further from the truth. Thinking these are not juvenile sasquatch photos and thinking sasquatch do not exist are two very very different things.</p>
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