Cryptomundo » Pondering the Mawas Situation

Pondering the Mawas Situation

Posted by: Loren Coleman on May 8th, 2006

Heuvelmans

With the death of Dr. Bernard Heuvelmans, 84, one of the fathers of Cryptozoology, on August 22, 2001, we lost more than a cryptozoologist. Indeed, a philosopher departed the scene.

I have often wondered what he would say to all the interest and modern internet talk about the Malaysian Mawas and/or Bigfoot situation.

As I look at his lover Alika Lindbergh’s paintings of Heuvelmans, the single quotation that keeps coming to my mind, from my sensitive friend and fellow thinker, is this one:

Cryptozoological research should be actuated by two major forces: patience and passion. - Dr. Bernard Heuvelmans, Cryptozoology, Volume 7, 1988.

Heuvelmans

I ponder, as well, Dmitri Bayanov’s observations concerning our field, also from the journal Cryptozoology, in Volume 6, 1987:

The first order of business in cryptozoology is to collect and analyze the testimony of witnesses. There is no end to mirth, scoffing, and solemn warning from critics in this connection….It is noteworthy that such an attitude is generally evinced by individuals whose professions are not concerned with collecting and analyzing human testimony. Of course, all testimony is subject to doubt, but it is one thing to state that men are fallible - or that some people are fond of spinning a tale - and quite another to assert that no man is trustworthy, and no witness can tell the truth….

Let me stress that, given the nature of cryptids, and barring their chance discovery, their planned discovery, which is the hoped-for intent of cryptozoology, is almost certain to be preceded by eyewitness, footprint, and photographic evidence. Thus, the existence of such evidence, and the study and evaluation of it, is a clear indication that cryptozoology is proceeding appropriately as a particular line of scientific inquiry.

To all this, in the slow process of discovery, I must add a Coleman footnote: One who actively is involved in cryptozoology has to have an incredible sense of humor to be a good cryptozoologist today.

Therefore, allow me to share through Cryptomundo, from time to time, specific editorial cartoons to add to the mix, this time thanks to the talent of Peter Loh.

Enjoy.

Vincent Chow

Click on image for full-size version

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This entry was posted on Monday, May 8th, 2006 at 7:04 am and is filed under Breaking News, CryptoZoo News, Cryptozoologists, Cryptozoology, Eyewitness Accounts, Forensic Science, Malaysian Bigfoot, Pop Culture, Public Forum. You can follow responses via our RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is not allowed.

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17 Responses to “Pondering the Mawas Situation”

fuzzy responds: May 8th, 2006 at 7:41 am
Actually, with appropriate paraphrasing, all three above quotes should apply to ANY investigative quest.
jjames1 responds: May 8th, 2006 at 9:26 am
These quotes and cartoons are all well & good, but none truly address the issue of WHY these photos shouldn’t be released now or at least shown to a non-biased third party.
bill green responds: May 8th, 2006 at 12:00 pm
hey everyone great quotes cryptozoology cartoons yes i to agree with above posts please be patient. bill p.s . who knows maybe the photos and this new book will come this month or next month.
Chymo responds: May 8th, 2006 at 12:59 pm
If Chow has only recently seen the photographs, as he seems to indicate in the interview, & if Loren has not yet written the foreword/preface to the book, then the publication most certainly will *not* be ‘this month or next month’.

In addition, the cagey way the said owner of the photographs is treating them, it seems questionable whether Chow or anyone else may be able to negotiate their use in a book.

Loren, have you seen the M.S.? What state is the book in, in terms of time to publication? I don’t know if you have mentioned who the publisher is, I may have missed it.
Loren Coleman responds: May 8th, 2006 at 1:02 pm
Patience and passion.
Ranatemporaria responds: May 8th, 2006 at 1:34 pm
Nice toons Loren.
Jeremy_Wells responds: May 8th, 2006 at 3:43 pm
re #3 jjames1

I think this one addresses it nicely:

Cryptozoological research should be actuated by two major forces: patience and passion. - Dr. Bernard Heuvelmans, Cryptozoology, Volume 7, 1988.

Patience, Grasshopper. Patience.
bill green responds: May 8th, 2006 at 6:40 pm
hey chymo good evening yes totaly agree with your post to me about this issue. remember please be very patient ok. i hope loren shows us a rough draft of what he putting in this new book. thanks bill
youcantryreachingme responds: May 8th, 2006 at 7:25 pm
hahaha - the last Loh cartoon is fantastic
feldspar helmet responds: May 8th, 2006 at 9:49 pm
Great ‘toons. They relate to the topic nicely. The challenge with any form of research into the unknown has to be keeping a balance between believing enough to keep looking and being sceptical enough to avoid having the wool pulled over your eyes. That sounds tough to do, even if the subject matter was willing to stand up in public. It’s even more challenging when most of your evidence is given second hand or by word of mouth. Keep up the hard work.
jjames1 responds: May 8th, 2006 at 9:58 pm
Jeremy, I fail to see your point. Again, I’m asking WHY we should just sit back and “be patient.” In response, you simply quoted Heuvelmans saying to be patient…You’re using circular logic there; telling me to be patient because I should be patient?

My point is that the potential value to science if (and that’s a BIG if…) these pictures are real overwhelms any private/monetary benefit to those that control the pictures. Why should the world “be patient” in a matter like this? Don’t just repeat yourself. Please give me legitimate reasons WHY waiting is better than releasing the pictures now. I’ve yet to hear one single reason over the past few days here…
Peter Loh responds: May 8th, 2006 at 11:20 pm
Hey, youcantryreachingme and feldspar helmet, thanks for your compliments!
jjames1, here’s my view about why we should at least try to be patient:

Imagine what it would be like if Chow (or anyone else for that matter) had, all of a sudden, showed the pictures to the world. I think reactions would range from total disbelief to incredible excitement, not only in the scientific community, but also the entire world in general. And there would almost certainly be tons and tons of questions directed at Chow. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think you’d want to be in that situation if you were Chow.

Just as you would in a crucial card game, you’d make sure that you held on to your trump card until you were certain that showing it would lead to a sure win. Now, I’m not saying that Chow is doing this for personal gain, but he has every right to play it the way he sees fit. He has his reasons for doing so and these might or might not coincide with those I’m mentioning here.

By taking some time to sort out the facts, evidence, etc, I believe Chow and his co-authors are trying their best to organise all the information and present this incredible find to the world in a concise, practical and believable manner. There is no point in carelessly releasing the photos at this point in time, which might lead to even more controversy and debate than what we’re seeing now. I think no matter how clear and convincing the photos are, there would still be the usual hardcore skeptics who need to see the real thing or a dead animal to be convinced.
jjames1 responds: May 8th, 2006 at 11:35 pm
Thanks for responding, Peter. Actually, if I was in Chow’s position, I’d do everything within my power to release the photos as soon as possible. If Chow didn’t want to be in this position, then he shouldn’t be giving interviews to newspapers and holding press conferences. (Yes, I understand that he apparently did not know others knew about his connection to the photos before the last press conference, etc…).

The fact of the matter is that Chow has inserted himself into the Mawas story from the beginning a few months ago. There’s no going back now.
apiraymond responds: May 9th, 2006 at 2:56 am
Vincent himself has dispensed sensible advice to his group of Malaysia Nature Society members on Mar 3 which I believe suit this topic “Pondering the Mawas Situation”

Quote:

Dear all,

If you are steeped in Antropological, Zoological and Paleontological interests, will you have a clearer understanding of its significance when found as it will provide numerous elusive answers to researchers regarding a primitive man-ape that has confounded the world as regards to its ability to survivie all odds to see the present times.It will provide an insight into the evolution of Man and his kins and could expose how our ancestors coped with environmental changes and challenges through evolutionary processes.It may not excite Malaysians but the world’s fraternity of scienist will flock to Johor for obvious reasons.

If we take a ’so what’ approach, then we will remain as skeptics, and still not accept facts as they are revealed.Skeptics and cynics may remain so but the academic world will see things in a very enlightening light and Paleontology may require a rethink about its theory of Man’s ancestry as well as his evolutionary path.

If found it will probably be the find of the century and Malaysia will be praised for its efforts in conservation of the forests until even a primitive creature is safe and snug, to be found , 500,000 years ( supposedly BF is descended from the Giant Ape-Gigantopithecus blackii) after it was reported to go extinct due to weather changes as well as being predated upon by others like Homo erectus.

Johor is suddenly on the map of everybody’s mind, especially overseas. What impacts it will have on our toursim industry it is not known as yet, but I suppose it will attract the curious and the serious to Johor. Then perhaps, it will add a few dollars more to the common trader as he is now able to sell a little more than ordinary times. Cumulatively, the tourist dollar should add a lilttle fillip to Johor’s economy, and that is a positive index for Johor’s economy.

I would like to welcome anyone to follow me on one of my evidence-seeking trip and perhaps, in the right environment, one will not be bent on proving BF is for real, but get to enjoy the natural world that is there. If BF is found, we should be thankful that it is happening in Johor , not in Vancouver or the Himalayas.

BF should be treated a a rare form of our fauna, and may still remain as a myth, a mystery, and a subject for all to debate freely. Everyone is entilted to his or her own opinion , whatever yours may be, I will have to give my due respect.

Vincent Chow
twblack responds: May 9th, 2006 at 4:40 am
Mr. Loh A very good point on why not to release the photos. I am new to the blog here. The last few days I have been one who has said to release the photos or at least let a third party take a look at one of the pic’s. If this is the “REAL THING” we all hope anyway then you are right MR. Chow should take his time and make sure every question should be asked and answered and no if’s,and’s or but’s left to ponder so to speak. It will be well worth the wait if this turns out to be genuine and not another hoax or con of some kind. And I am sure Mr. Chow himself wants to make 100% sure he is not being led into a big con or hoax either.
Keep Up The Good Work Mr. Loh
Jeremy_Wells responds: May 9th, 2006 at 10:28 am
re: # 12
jjames1,
I’m sure I can’t explain to your satisfaction why I feel patience is a virtue here. I wasn’t trying to persuade, only noting a quote from above that I found relevant (as per your comment in #3 “none truly address the issue of WHY these photos shouldn’t be released now or at least shown to a non-biased third party.”)

I suppose in this case you either agree with Heuvelmans, or you don’t.

I can say that, were I Chow, I’d be very careful with how I proceeded, especially given the contentious nature of many toward the idea of hairy hominids still roaming the globe.

Then again, I have a skeptical mind. While I want to believe, I’d go over any evidence with a VERY fine toothed comb, and be sure I had all my ducks in a row, before going public (perhaps Chow slipped up here in leaking any info on the photos to the press, but fallibility is a human trait, and I won’t fault Chow for this one slip.)

Also, if you will allow me to relate some personal experience from my work as a journalist, I would tell you that rushing forward with a story is often the first instinct. But this is not always best. Even with something as simple as a car accident early eyewitness accounts and the final police report version of what happened, based on evidence such as angle of strike and tire tracks, can vary considerably.

So I will say that I feel patience is necessary because, from my experience, things are not always as they seem on initial examination. As I explained to one police officer after being pulled over for driving too slow, my opinion is that, when on unfamiliar, steep, curving country roads, driving deliberately is the prudent thing to do.

Remember too that the team who captured Architeuthis on film waited a year to release the footage, and that was with an animal that was already, undisputably known to science from carcass evidence. Doesn’t it make more sense then to be twice as prudent with a previously undescribed specimen?
lamarkable responds: May 9th, 2006 at 10:43 am
The short term issues pale in comparison to the ones that are long term, should this be the discovery it appears to be, at least on the surface as the situation unfolds. Be careful what you wish for.
What is to be the relationship between ourselves and this species? An observer always changes the nature of what is observed.
It is always the unspoken assumption that we ourselves are immune to evolution as if we had been captured in amber, when quite the contrary, we are a moving target as much as this new species appears to be. Are we tampering?
Of course we are. What is primitive culture and what is not is a poorly made distiction in the past.
This can either be an enormous gift to us or a horrific legacy. I think more time should be spent on these issues than the speed in which photos are released. The fact that many people want a rapid unfolding of events says volumes about our culture.

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