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	<title>Comments on: How Would You Hunt Bigfoot?</title>
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	<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/hunt-bf/</link>
	<description>for Bigfoot, Loch Ness, and More</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:11:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: fnesh</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/hunt-bf/#comment-26330</link>
		<dc:creator>fnesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 22:32:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/hunt-bf/#comment-26330</guid>
		<description>Personally,

I would charter a helicopter (much like a police helicopter) that is outfitted with infrared heat detection (much like a police helicopter) and I would fly over expanses of land taking note of the wildlife encounterd.  When I encounterd a ten foot tall ape... I would follow it, tranquilize and tag it with a GPS system using one dart.  I would then organize a search using the GPS, capture the creature and consider it time for a beer.  Enough said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally,</p>
<p>I would charter a helicopter (much like a police helicopter) that is outfitted with infrared heat detection (much like a police helicopter) and I would fly over expanses of land taking note of the wildlife encounterd.  When I encounterd a ten foot tall ape&#8230; I would follow it, tranquilize and tag it with a GPS system using one dart.  I would then organize a search using the GPS, capture the creature and consider it time for a beer.  Enough said.</p>
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		<title>By: kittenz</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/hunt-bf/#comment-26329</link>
		<dc:creator>kittenz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 13:56:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/hunt-bf/#comment-26329</guid>
		<description>I would much rather see a non-invasive approach used to find Bigfoot. Having a team of researchers live in a forest where Bigfoot are thought to be, for long enough to actually find the creatures and get good, conclusive evidence to prove to the rest of the world that they exist, would be the &lt;em&gt;best&lt;/em&gt; approach by far - in a perfect world. But that kind of exploration research costs many thousands of dollars. Most organizations have to compete for the research dollars they get, and the sad fact is that the money is just not there to fund a long-term search for a storied, but unknown, animal. In fact, as we all know, that's why the dedicated people who do Bigfoot research on their own time can't just stay in the woods until they find the Bigfoot: someone has to pay their bills and feed their kids, and so they have to keep day jobs, and limit their searches for Bigfoot to their spare time.

Unless some very wealthy individual steps forward to fund a long-term exploration (with no guarantee of success), the search for Bigfoot will probably be limited to the fragments of time that dedicated amateurs can glean from their schedules. So a more invasive method, such as the use of tracking dogs, may be a way to find the Bigfoot sooner.

If Bigfoot &lt;em&gt;are&lt;/em&gt; found and their existence is proven, it would not be necessary to use invasive tactics to study them, because the funding for serious research would literally pour in. So, while such methods are invasive, and it's distasteful to consider them, if they lead to the confirmation of Bigfoot's existence they will have been worthwhile, provided that every effort is made to ensure that the Bigfoot comes to no harm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would much rather see a non-invasive approach used to find Bigfoot. Having a team of researchers live in a forest where Bigfoot are thought to be, for long enough to actually find the creatures and get good, conclusive evidence to prove to the rest of the world that they exist, would be the <em>best</em> approach by far - in a perfect world. But that kind of exploration research costs many thousands of dollars. Most organizations have to compete for the research dollars they get, and the sad fact is that the money is just not there to fund a long-term search for a storied, but unknown, animal. In fact, as we all know, that&#8217;s why the dedicated people who do Bigfoot research on their own time can&#8217;t just stay in the woods until they find the Bigfoot: someone has to pay their bills and feed their kids, and so they have to keep day jobs, and limit their searches for Bigfoot to their spare time.</p>
<p>Unless some very wealthy individual steps forward to fund a long-term exploration (with no guarantee of success), the search for Bigfoot will probably be limited to the fragments of time that dedicated amateurs can glean from their schedules. So a more invasive method, such as the use of tracking dogs, may be a way to find the Bigfoot sooner.</p>
<p>If Bigfoot <em>are</em> found and their existence is proven, it would not be necessary to use invasive tactics to study them, because the funding for serious research would literally pour in. So, while such methods are invasive, and it&#8217;s distasteful to consider them, if they lead to the confirmation of Bigfoot&#8217;s existence they will have been worthwhile, provided that every effort is made to ensure that the Bigfoot comes to no harm.</p>
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		<title>By: mystery_man</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/hunt-bf/#comment-26328</link>
		<dc:creator>mystery_man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 08:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/hunt-bf/#comment-26328</guid>
		<description>Well, the use of dogs is a realistic approach, Kittenz. And I think it may have to come down to that at some point. It is true that in order for anyone to want to mount a costly field research operation, one is going to have to have confirmation that it is out there to be studied. I appreciate your realistic approach to this and I suppose I am a bit unrealistic in my desire to do so in a noninvasive way. That way hasn't worked so far, so maybe it is time to try something a little more direct such as using dogs. I can see the points you are making and in many ways I agree. We need that documentation of its existence if we expect it to be studied in a thorough way. I just would like to see it done without resorting to dogs and guns. Sigh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the use of dogs is a realistic approach, Kittenz. And I think it may have to come down to that at some point. It is true that in order for anyone to want to mount a costly field research operation, one is going to have to have confirmation that it is out there to be studied. I appreciate your realistic approach to this and I suppose I am a bit unrealistic in my desire to do so in a noninvasive way. That way hasn&#8217;t worked so far, so maybe it is time to try something a little more direct such as using dogs. I can see the points you are making and in many ways I agree. We need that documentation of its existence if we expect it to be studied in a thorough way. I just would like to see it done without resorting to dogs and guns. Sigh.</p>
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		<title>By: kittenz</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/hunt-bf/#comment-26327</link>
		<dc:creator>kittenz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2007 22:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/hunt-bf/#comment-26327</guid>
		<description>I'm just trying to be realistic here. Even the apes studied in longterm field studies do not willingly provide blood samples. I just do not see any other way, realistically, to get blood and other tissue samples from a Bigfoot, and to prove that they &lt;em&gt;are&lt;/em&gt; from a Bigfoot, than to obtain the initial samples from an anesthetized living animal, or from a dead one. I can't believe that a Bigfoot would of its own volition thrust its arm out for a tourniquet and a needle stick. And all of that is moot, anyway, until the animals are actually located.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just trying to be realistic here. Even the apes studied in longterm field studies do not willingly provide blood samples. I just do not see any other way, realistically, to get blood and other tissue samples from a Bigfoot, and to prove that they <em>are</em> from a Bigfoot, than to obtain the initial samples from an anesthetized living animal, or from a dead one. I can&#8217;t believe that a Bigfoot would of its own volition thrust its arm out for a tourniquet and a needle stick. And all of that is moot, anyway, until the animals are actually located.</p>
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		<title>By: kittenz</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/hunt-bf/#comment-26326</link>
		<dc:creator>kittenz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2007 22:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/hunt-bf/#comment-26326</guid>
		<description>I know about animals and anesthesia :). I agree, there is risk, and of course there is no universally accepted idea of what dose would be effective for a Bigfoot. And you're right that finding Sas with dogs is no guarantee that they would be found again. I also agree that long-term field study is the best option for studying these animals.

BUT. Long-term field studies take MONEY, and the money for those studies will not be forthcoming until the animals' existence is proven. It's not like funding studies for a rare rhino, for instance, where the animal is known to exist, or at least to have existed. Obtaining funding for studying known animals is hard enough, but obtaining funding for the longterm field study of &lt;em&gt;unknown&lt;/em&gt; animals is pretty much impossible. Finding the animals, and documenting their existence beyond doubt, is the crucial first step to obtaining the financial support necessary to fund field studies.

I'm not talking about trailing Bigfoot with hounds, or with any sort of attack dog. I'm proposing using trained search dogs, worked closely on leashes, to find the Bigfoot. I've worked with dogs all my life, and I am well aware of their capabilities and of their limitations. But the fact remains that dogs' senses are many times better than our own. I've had wonderful German Shepherds all my life, and working with a UDT or a SCH III tracking dog is an awesome experience. They track silently, and they will track whatever you ask them to track. I'm not suggesting that the dogs be used like hounds, to actually close with the Bigfoot.  But I believe that dogs could be used to find the Sas so that they can be proven to exist, once and for all, and hopefully get close enough to at least one of them to utilize some sort of capture technique.

As for the anesthetic, the safest anesthetics are inhalation anesthetics, closely monitored in a hospital setting. But those are not usable for field work. I would think that a xylazine/ketamine/atropine injection would be quite safe; it's an older formula, but it is safe and effective for most animals (although there are some highly inbred dogs that are sensitive to the xylazine). It's been used, and is still used, in a wide variety of animal species, usually with no ill effect. Of course a narcotics reverser such as Narcan should be on hand, as well as portable oxygen. There's no way to ensure completely the safety or effectiveness of &lt;em&gt;any&lt;/em&gt; anethesia, even under the best of circumstances. But if the anesthetic did not knock the animal down, it would at least make it groggy enough to allow capture with a net. Blood and tissue samples could then be obtained. It would not be necessary to actually "take the animal into custody" to document that it exists.

It's true that animals occasionally die from anesthesia, even from anesthesia usually deemed safe. I would not want a Bigfoot killed, but if one was killed accidentally, it would still be documentation of their existence.

Once Bigfoot is proven to exist, I have no doubt that the funding for long-term field studies would follow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know about animals and anesthesia :). I agree, there is risk, and of course there is no universally accepted idea of what dose would be effective for a Bigfoot. And you&#8217;re right that finding Sas with dogs is no guarantee that they would be found again. I also agree that long-term field study is the best option for studying these animals.</p>
<p>BUT. Long-term field studies take MONEY, and the money for those studies will not be forthcoming until the animals&#8217; existence is proven. It&#8217;s not like funding studies for a rare rhino, for instance, where the animal is known to exist, or at least to have existed. Obtaining funding for studying known animals is hard enough, but obtaining funding for the longterm field study of <em>unknown</em> animals is pretty much impossible. Finding the animals, and documenting their existence beyond doubt, is the crucial first step to obtaining the financial support necessary to fund field studies.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not talking about trailing Bigfoot with hounds, or with any sort of attack dog. I&#8217;m proposing using trained search dogs, worked closely on leashes, to find the Bigfoot. I&#8217;ve worked with dogs all my life, and I am well aware of their capabilities and of their limitations. But the fact remains that dogs&#8217; senses are many times better than our own. I&#8217;ve had wonderful German Shepherds all my life, and working with a UDT or a SCH III tracking dog is an awesome experience. They track silently, and they will track whatever you ask them to track. I&#8217;m not suggesting that the dogs be used like hounds, to actually close with the Bigfoot.  But I believe that dogs could be used to find the Sas so that they can be proven to exist, once and for all, and hopefully get close enough to at least one of them to utilize some sort of capture technique.</p>
<p>As for the anesthetic, the safest anesthetics are inhalation anesthetics, closely monitored in a hospital setting. But those are not usable for field work. I would think that a xylazine/ketamine/atropine injection would be quite safe; it&#8217;s an older formula, but it is safe and effective for most animals (although there are some highly inbred dogs that are sensitive to the xylazine). It&#8217;s been used, and is still used, in a wide variety of animal species, usually with no ill effect. Of course a narcotics reverser such as Narcan should be on hand, as well as portable oxygen. There&#8217;s no way to ensure completely the safety or effectiveness of <em>any</em> anethesia, even under the best of circumstances. But if the anesthetic did not knock the animal down, it would at least make it groggy enough to allow capture with a net. Blood and tissue samples could then be obtained. It would not be necessary to actually &#8220;take the animal into custody&#8221; to document that it exists.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s true that animals occasionally die from anesthesia, even from anesthesia usually deemed safe. I would not want a Bigfoot killed, but if one was killed accidentally, it would still be documentation of their existence.</p>
<p>Once Bigfoot is proven to exist, I have no doubt that the funding for long-term field studies would follow.</p>
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		<title>By: DWA</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/hunt-bf/#comment-26325</link>
		<dc:creator>DWA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2007 21:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/hunt-bf/#comment-26325</guid>
		<description>duskshade, you say:

"I think that no matter what, unless a person drags a BF kicking and screaming from the bush, or has a body of one, then none of mainstream media will be likely or inclined to listen."

Actually, some of the mainstream media HAVE been listening.  For a long time.  My first exposure to the sas was a very balanced article in National Wildlife magazine, almost 40 years ago.  Local newspapers follow up on sightings, and a surprising number of recent articles withhold judgment and avoid making a joke of it.

I think a major reason that scientific luminaries like Goodall and Schaller think this is worthy of study is the best of the treatment by the mass media.  John Bindernagel, one of the most respected researchers, had about as serious an article on this as you could want published in "Beautiful British Columbia" magazine, which doesn't exactly consider it in its best interest making sure folks label BC as a nut farm.

I wouldn't justify any mistreatment of an animal by catering to mass media.

Kittenz:  I guess I really think this thing can be confirmed without guns and dogs and tranqs, and I'm hoping those approaches are tried first.  If I've said it once I've said it a hundred times:  let a mainstream scientist doing a mainstream hunt for this animal have the kind of encounter experience many Americans have already had, and we're pretty much there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>duskshade, you say:</p>
<p>&#8220;I think that no matter what, unless a person drags a BF kicking and screaming from the bush, or has a body of one, then none of mainstream media will be likely or inclined to listen.&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, some of the mainstream media HAVE been listening.  For a long time.  My first exposure to the sas was a very balanced article in National Wildlife magazine, almost 40 years ago.  Local newspapers follow up on sightings, and a surprising number of recent articles withhold judgment and avoid making a joke of it.</p>
<p>I think a major reason that scientific luminaries like Goodall and Schaller think this is worthy of study is the best of the treatment by the mass media.  John Bindernagel, one of the most respected researchers, had about as serious an article on this as you could want published in &#8220;Beautiful British Columbia&#8221; magazine, which doesn&#8217;t exactly consider it in its best interest making sure folks label BC as a nut farm.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t justify any mistreatment of an animal by catering to mass media.</p>
<p>Kittenz:  I guess I really think this thing can be confirmed without guns and dogs and tranqs, and I&#8217;m hoping those approaches are tried first.  If I&#8217;ve said it once I&#8217;ve said it a hundred times:  let a mainstream scientist doing a mainstream hunt for this animal have the kind of encounter experience many Americans have already had, and we&#8217;re pretty much there.</p>
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		<title>By: mystery_man</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/hunt-bf/#comment-26324</link>
		<dc:creator>mystery_man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2007 08:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/hunt-bf/#comment-26324</guid>
		<description>Kittenz- Again, tranqs have been brought up, but remember that tranquilizers are a tricky thing. As I have said before, even with known animals, the dosage has to be pretty well calculated. Too much and you could kill it, not enough and you have a whole new set of problems. Also, I think the other posters were taking your post on studying them like other primates to heart. You say "this isn't a post on how to study Bigfoot" but you said it yourself that we should study them like we would other primates and the others are trying to say that using dogs is not fitting in with this. As for them fearing Bigfoot, there is a lot of eyewitness testimony to this effect and we still don't know what will happen when a Bigfoot is cornered and it is hit with a badly dosed tranquilizer. I personally agree that getting a living confirmation is important but we know so little about them, that perhaps holding back on overly invasive techniques would be prudent for now. They are so elusive that even if they were found with dogs, how would we find them again? There's no guarantee we would be able to routinely find such a shy and elusive creature. So do we use dogs again? I just think there has to be a better way, although I honestly don't know what that way is yet. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kittenz- Again, tranqs have been brought up, but remember that tranquilizers are a tricky thing. As I have said before, even with known animals, the dosage has to be pretty well calculated. Too much and you could kill it, not enough and you have a whole new set of problems. Also, I think the other posters were taking your post on studying them like other primates to heart. You say &#8220;this isn&#8217;t a post on how to study Bigfoot&#8221; but you said it yourself that we should study them like we would other primates and the others are trying to say that using dogs is not fitting in with this. As for them fearing Bigfoot, there is a lot of eyewitness testimony to this effect and we still don&#8217;t know what will happen when a Bigfoot is cornered and it is hit with a badly dosed tranquilizer. I personally agree that getting a living confirmation is important but we know so little about them, that perhaps holding back on overly invasive techniques would be prudent for now. They are so elusive that even if they were found with dogs, how would we find them again? There&#8217;s no guarantee we would be able to routinely find such a shy and elusive creature. So do we use dogs again? I just think there has to be a better way, although I honestly don&#8217;t know what that way is yet. <img src='http://www.cryptomundo.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: duskshade</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/hunt-bf/#comment-26323</link>
		<dc:creator>duskshade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2007 04:56:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/hunt-bf/#comment-26323</guid>
		<description>I still think if you took a team and made it a point of having them in the field for a long period of time, that likely they will have better success than a short incursion or even a high-hide full of cameras.

SAR dogs would be best IF you felt that dogtracking is the best route.  Although canine/BF interaction normally involves a short munch by BF on the canine in question, that can be alleviated with a dog that was bred to handle that kind of attack.  I would suggest a trainable gamedog, maybe a well-trained APBT with SAR training that can hold its own against a bigger creature.

I think that no matter what, unless a person drags a BF kicking and screaming from the bush, or has a body of one, then none of mainstream media will be likely or inclined to listen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still think if you took a team and made it a point of having them in the field for a long period of time, that likely they will have better success than a short incursion or even a high-hide full of cameras.</p>
<p>SAR dogs would be best IF you felt that dogtracking is the best route.  Although canine/BF interaction normally involves a short munch by BF on the canine in question, that can be alleviated with a dog that was bred to handle that kind of attack.  I would suggest a trainable gamedog, maybe a well-trained APBT with SAR training that can hold its own against a bigger creature.</p>
<p>I think that no matter what, unless a person drags a BF kicking and screaming from the bush, or has a body of one, then none of mainstream media will be likely or inclined to listen.</p>
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		<title>By: kittenz</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/hunt-bf/#comment-26322</link>
		<dc:creator>kittenz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Mar 2007 21:23:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/hunt-bf/#comment-26322</guid>
		<description>DWA,

I agree wholeheartedly that harassing an animal in the name of science is to be avoided whenever possible. But I think that everyone here who is a realist knows that confirming an unknown animal's existence requires that there be a body to study - whether that body is of a living creature or a dead one.  I much prefer to think that someone will secure a living Bigfoot, but I don't imagine that an awake, aware Bigfoot would be too keen on providing blood and tissue samples for testing :).

Remember, the question posed in this topic is "how would you &lt;em&gt;find&lt;/em&gt; Bigfoot?", not "how would you go about studying them?". They are so very elusive that traditional non-invasive methods do not seem to be producing results. Tracking dogs have been used with great success in finding other elusive animals, including jaguars in  Central America, pumas in North America, and bears around the world.

I agree that invasive techniques such as the use of tracking dogs and tranquilizers must be kept to a minimum. But proving that an animal exists is a first and necessary step in acquiring its protection. If invasive, but nonfatal, techniques are used simply to confirm an animal's existence, then those techniques will have been worthwhile.

Once Bigfoot's existence is confirmed beyond question, the researchers can begin to study them in less invasive ways. Let's face it, &lt;em&gt;any&lt;/em&gt; intrusion upon an animal, however minimal, is invasive to a degree. But sometimes it's necessary in order to gain the support necessary to try to ensure their survival.

Assuming they exist, of course. But it's redundant to qualify every post with that phrase.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DWA,</p>
<p>I agree wholeheartedly that harassing an animal in the name of science is to be avoided whenever possible. But I think that everyone here who is a realist knows that confirming an unknown animal&#8217;s existence requires that there be a body to study - whether that body is of a living creature or a dead one.  I much prefer to think that someone will secure a living Bigfoot, but I don&#8217;t imagine that an awake, aware Bigfoot would be too keen on providing blood and tissue samples for testing :).</p>
<p>Remember, the question posed in this topic is &#8220;how would you <em>find</em> Bigfoot?&#8221;, not &#8220;how would you go about studying them?&#8221;. They are so very elusive that traditional non-invasive methods do not seem to be producing results. Tracking dogs have been used with great success in finding other elusive animals, including jaguars in  Central America, pumas in North America, and bears around the world.</p>
<p>I agree that invasive techniques such as the use of tracking dogs and tranquilizers must be kept to a minimum. But proving that an animal exists is a first and necessary step in acquiring its protection. If invasive, but nonfatal, techniques are used simply to confirm an animal&#8217;s existence, then those techniques will have been worthwhile.</p>
<p>Once Bigfoot&#8217;s existence is confirmed beyond question, the researchers can begin to study them in less invasive ways. Let&#8217;s face it, <em>any</em> intrusion upon an animal, however minimal, is invasive to a degree. But sometimes it&#8217;s necessary in order to gain the support necessary to try to ensure their survival.</p>
<p>Assuming they exist, of course. But it&#8217;s redundant to qualify every post with that phrase.</p>
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		<title>By: DWA</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/hunt-bf/#comment-26321</link>
		<dc:creator>DWA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Mar 2007 19:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/hunt-bf/#comment-26321</guid>
		<description>I don't know, kittenz.

And I guess mystery_man's and my posts tell you how we feel about stuff like tranqs.

I guess that what's harrassment is for the animal to judge, and if I were in its predicament I might be inclined to say anything is.

I've said before, though, that I hope - that's not think, that's hope - the discovery of the animal will yield more good, for it and by extension for us, than it will harm.

However it happens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know, kittenz.</p>
<p>And I guess mystery_man&#8217;s and my posts tell you how we feel about stuff like tranqs.</p>
<p>I guess that what&#8217;s harrassment is for the animal to judge, and if I were in its predicament I might be inclined to say anything is.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve said before, though, that I hope - that&#8217;s not think, that&#8217;s hope - the discovery of the animal will yield more good, for it and by extension for us, than it will harm.</p>
<p>However it happens.</p>
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