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	<title>Comments on: Honshu Wolf Survival?</title>
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		<title>By: Brian Derby</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/honshuwolf/comment-page-2/#comment-70936</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Derby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jul 2011 12:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/honshuwolf/#comment-70936</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I believe that the Honshu Wolf still exists because one just walked through my backyard (Saturday 2:00 July 2nd 2011).

I have a house in the hills in Abeta village, Nabari City, Mie Province.

es, something should be done to protect what is left of the species.

Regards
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that the Honshu Wolf still exists because one just walked through my backyard (Saturday 2:00 July 2nd 2011).</p>
<p>I have a house in the hills in Abeta village, Nabari City, Mie Province.</p>
<p>es, something should be done to protect what is left of the species.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: kittenz</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/honshuwolf/comment-page-2/#comment-26964</link>
		<dc:creator>kittenz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 02:05:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/honshuwolf/#comment-26964</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The term for the retention of juvenile characteristics in the adult animal is &lt;em&gt;neoteny&lt;/em&gt;, and I agree that domestic dogs - indeed domestic animals of all kinds - show neoteny to various degrees. For instance many dogs have drop ears, which is an adult manifestation of the folded &quot;larval&quot; ears of newborn puppies. All wild dogs have upright ears, usually by the time they are weaned.

I don&#039;t think that the evolution of domestic dogs is nearly as straightforward as some would have us believe. When dogs are left to their own devices, in long-term feral situations for instance, their overall appearance never reverts to a wolf-like appearance, but always begins to approximate the appearance of a dingo-like animal. Some multi-generational offspring of feral dogs look a bit like the Honshu wolves shown here. And so-called &quot;Irish spotting&quot; (the kind of white markings typically found in collies, for instance - white toes, tail tips, central facial blaze, and sometimes white throat or collar - is found in the wild in Arctic foxes and dingos, as well as in pariah-type dogs, but not in wolves. I believe that there are many, many  missing pieces to the puzzle of canine evolution.

In a somewhat related story, I read today at this &lt;a title=&quot;link&quot; href=&quot;http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070326/sc_afp/healthskoreasciencecloning&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;link&lt;/a&gt; that some Korean scientists, who claim to have already succeeded in cloning dogs - specifically Afghan hounds - reported today that they have successfully cloned an endangered species of wolf. The article did not say what species it was. I am a bit skeptical since one of the people associated with the project is Hwang Woo-Suk, who is now an object of international disgrace because of fraud and other ethical issues. But if the news is true, it may mean that the numbers of some &quot;extinct&quot; or highly endangered species and subspecies could be increased in this way. It&#039;s not a &lt;em&gt;solution&lt;/em&gt; to the problem of extinction; only through protection and habitat preservation can we hope to prevent endangered animals from going extinct. But used judiciously, cloning could possibly help to prevent the total loss of critically endangered animals, or even to resurrect recently extinct  species and subspecies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The term for the retention of juvenile characteristics in the adult animal is <em>neoteny</em>, and I agree that domestic dogs &#8211; indeed domestic animals of all kinds &#8211; show neoteny to various degrees. For instance many dogs have drop ears, which is an adult manifestation of the folded &#8220;larval&#8221; ears of newborn puppies. All wild dogs have upright ears, usually by the time they are weaned.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that the evolution of domestic dogs is nearly as straightforward as some would have us believe. When dogs are left to their own devices, in long-term feral situations for instance, their overall appearance never reverts to a wolf-like appearance, but always begins to approximate the appearance of a dingo-like animal. Some multi-generational offspring of feral dogs look a bit like the Honshu wolves shown here. And so-called &#8220;Irish spotting&#8221; (the kind of white markings typically found in collies, for instance &#8211; white toes, tail tips, central facial blaze, and sometimes white throat or collar &#8211; is found in the wild in Arctic foxes and dingos, as well as in pariah-type dogs, but not in wolves. I believe that there are many, many  missing pieces to the puzzle of canine evolution.</p>
<p>In a somewhat related story, I read today at this <a title="link" href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070326/sc_afp/healthskoreasciencecloning" rel="nofollow">link</a> that some Korean scientists, who claim to have already succeeded in cloning dogs &#8211; specifically Afghan hounds &#8211; reported today that they have successfully cloned an endangered species of wolf. The article did not say what species it was. I am a bit skeptical since one of the people associated with the project is Hwang Woo-Suk, who is now an object of international disgrace because of fraud and other ethical issues. But if the news is true, it may mean that the numbers of some &#8220;extinct&#8221; or highly endangered species and subspecies could be increased in this way. It&#8217;s not a <em>solution</em> to the problem of extinction; only through protection and habitat preservation can we hope to prevent endangered animals from going extinct. But used judiciously, cloning could possibly help to prevent the total loss of critically endangered animals, or even to resurrect recently extinct  species and subspecies.</p>
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		<title>By: dogu4</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/honshuwolf/comment-page-2/#comment-26963</link>
		<dc:creator>dogu4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2007 20:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/honshuwolf/#comment-26963</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoteny&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Neoteny&lt;/a&gt;...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoteny" rel="nofollow">Neoteny</a>&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: dogu4</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/honshuwolf/comment-page-2/#comment-26962</link>
		<dc:creator>dogu4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2007 17:29:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/honshuwolf/#comment-26962</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In the mean time; here&#039;s a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guardian.co.uk/korea/article/0,,2043157,00.html?gusrc=ticker-103704&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;scientist in Korea&lt;/a&gt; who&#039;s cloning wolves.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the mean time; here&#8217;s a <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/korea/article/0,,2043157,00.html?gusrc=ticker-103704" rel="nofollow">scientist in Korea</a> who&#8217;s cloning wolves.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ceroill</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/honshuwolf/comment-page-2/#comment-26961</link>
		<dc:creator>Ceroill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2007 17:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/honshuwolf/#comment-26961</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[kittenz: Another theory I&#039;ve seen in the past about dog breeds takes the position that in many ways different breeds have essentially become frozen at different stages of maturity. The more &#039;wolflike&#039; or &#039;agressive&#039; breeds, like the German Shepherd types, Dobermans and such have been allowed to more fully mature, in a way. While the more cuddly looking dogs, like sheepdogs, Newfoundlands, and such have been bred for their puppy-like characteristics.

I&#039;m sure I&#039;m not using all the correct technical terminology, but I feel certain you understand what I mean.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kittenz: Another theory I&#8217;ve seen in the past about dog breeds takes the position that in many ways different breeds have essentially become frozen at different stages of maturity. The more &#8216;wolflike&#8217; or &#8216;agressive&#8217; breeds, like the German Shepherd types, Dobermans and such have been allowed to more fully mature, in a way. While the more cuddly looking dogs, like sheepdogs, Newfoundlands, and such have been bred for their puppy-like characteristics.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;m not using all the correct technical terminology, but I feel certain you understand what I mean.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: kittenz</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/honshuwolf/comment-page-2/#comment-26960</link>
		<dc:creator>kittenz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:14:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/honshuwolf/#comment-26960</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree. The Russian experiment with the fur foxes is what got me started thinking that some dogs are at least partially descended from foxes. One of my friends had a pet store and from time to time they would have fox kits. The foxes are called blue foxes but they are really a color phase of arctic foxes. The kits behaved in every way like the puppies of small dogs. Small fox-like dogs (notably Pomeranians but several other types as well) even have the same kind of sheen and texture to their coats that foxes do, and there is a definite difference in their coats and those of wolf-like breeds such as shepherds and Mals.

I&#039;m going to keep looking for those refs. I believe that I saw the references to dog/fox matings in one of my books, but so far they have eluded me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree. The Russian experiment with the fur foxes is what got me started thinking that some dogs are at least partially descended from foxes. One of my friends had a pet store and from time to time they would have fox kits. The foxes are called blue foxes but they are really a color phase of arctic foxes. The kits behaved in every way like the puppies of small dogs. Small fox-like dogs (notably Pomeranians but several other types as well) even have the same kind of sheen and texture to their coats that foxes do, and there is a definite difference in their coats and those of wolf-like breeds such as shepherds and Mals.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to keep looking for those refs. I believe that I saw the references to dog/fox matings in one of my books, but so far they have eluded me.</p>
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		<title>By: Ceroill</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/honshuwolf/comment-page-2/#comment-26959</link>
		<dc:creator>Ceroill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 23:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/honshuwolf/#comment-26959</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[kittenz, I know it&#039;s not quite the same, but I saw a documentary a couple of years back about a Russian man who did experiments in domestication of canids by raising foxes as if they were dogs. They lived in cages, but they were fed rather than having to hunt, and in other ways treated as a dog would be. In just a few generations they began to show &#039;dog-like&#039; attributes: ears began to flop, coat became multicolored, etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kittenz, I know it&#8217;s not quite the same, but I saw a documentary a couple of years back about a Russian man who did experiments in domestication of canids by raising foxes as if they were dogs. They lived in cages, but they were fed rather than having to hunt, and in other ways treated as a dog would be. In just a few generations they began to show &#8216;dog-like&#8217; attributes: ears began to flop, coat became multicolored, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: dogu4</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/honshuwolf/comment-page-2/#comment-26958</link>
		<dc:creator>dogu4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 20:09:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/honshuwolf/#comment-26958</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I feel sure I&#039;ve seen referrence to it as well. In the mean time I saw this new speculation the canid/wolf transition, early today on linkfilter, and thought of the discussion on this subject, wonderin&#039; if it were still active...

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/life/story.html?id=cf1a5ddc-9661-4d7b-98d4-a0821d96334c&amp;k=2518&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;We didn&#039;t go to the dogs - canines went to the people&lt;/a&gt;

New evidence means new theories, which is always exciting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel sure I&#8217;ve seen referrence to it as well. In the mean time I saw this new speculation the canid/wolf transition, early today on linkfilter, and thought of the discussion on this subject, wonderin&#8217; if it were still active&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/life/story.html?id=cf1a5ddc-9661-4d7b-98d4-a0821d96334c&#038;k=2518" rel="nofollow">We didn&#8217;t go to the dogs &#8211; canines went to the people</a></p>
<p>New evidence means new theories, which is always exciting.</p>
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		<title>By: kittenz</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/honshuwolf/comment-page-2/#comment-26957</link>
		<dc:creator>kittenz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 19:50:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/honshuwolf/#comment-26957</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, I&#039;ve searched through books on top of books and scoured the internet and I cannot find any legitimate, verified  references to successful fox/dog matings. I &lt;em&gt;know&lt;/em&gt; I have seen that somewhere but maybe I am mistaken. I&#039;ve found several references to successful matings between different species of foxes, but I&#039;ve been unsuccessful (so far) in finding the literature on fox/dog matings. When I find it I&#039;ll research it and if it looks to be true I&#039;ll post it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;ve searched through books on top of books and scoured the internet and I cannot find any legitimate, verified  references to successful fox/dog matings. I <em>know</em> I have seen that somewhere but maybe I am mistaken. I&#8217;ve found several references to successful matings between different species of foxes, but I&#8217;ve been unsuccessful (so far) in finding the literature on fox/dog matings. When I find it I&#8217;ll research it and if it looks to be true I&#8217;ll post it.</p>
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		<title>By: kittenz</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/honshuwolf/comment-page-2/#comment-26956</link>
		<dc:creator>kittenz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2007 00:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/honshuwolf/#comment-26956</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Native peoples around the world, who live a nomadic or semi-nomadic existence (in my opinion, that is the &lt;em&gt;true&lt;/em&gt; natural way of life for our species), have always lived in harmony with wolves and other predators. They recognized the predators&#039; importance in their world. Because those nomadic or semi-nomadic people tended not to overwhelm their habitat, they got along well with all predators, from the smallest to the largest. That&#039;s not to say they don&#039;t kill a few, and the predators sometimes kill a few people, too, but there was a basic understanding and tolerance between the two.

It is the so-called &quot;civilized&quot; (read: agriculturalized) people, who forced their agriculture, and their massive herds of livestock, and later their (our) industries, into permanent, unnatural residence in relatively small, confined areas who began to see wolves and other predators as &quot;simple killers possessed of an evil nature&quot;. Of course, those people (&quot;we&quot;) are the ones who overran the world, and we also decided that the nomadic and semi-nomadic native peoples were also &quot;simple killers possessed of an evil nature&quot;, and therefore (since our agriculture and our livestock and our industries required more land to replace that to which we had already laid waste), we thought it was just fine to wipe them out right along with those bloodthirsty predators.

Thank goodness that the latter half of the twentieth century saw our kind beginning to look up from wantonly destroying wildlife, and listening to the saner minds among us, from John Muir and Adolph Murie, to Rachel Carson and Dian Fossey, and continuing with George Schaller and Jane Goodall. Even though habitat and wildlife destruction continues at an alarming rate around the globe, I am an optimist. I think there is hope for our kind yet, and just maybe there is hope for animals like the wolves too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Native peoples around the world, who live a nomadic or semi-nomadic existence (in my opinion, that is the <em>true</em> natural way of life for our species), have always lived in harmony with wolves and other predators. They recognized the predators&#8217; importance in their world. Because those nomadic or semi-nomadic people tended not to overwhelm their habitat, they got along well with all predators, from the smallest to the largest. That&#8217;s not to say they don&#8217;t kill a few, and the predators sometimes kill a few people, too, but there was a basic understanding and tolerance between the two.</p>
<p>It is the so-called &#8220;civilized&#8221; (read: agriculturalized) people, who forced their agriculture, and their massive herds of livestock, and later their (our) industries, into permanent, unnatural residence in relatively small, confined areas who began to see wolves and other predators as &#8220;simple killers possessed of an evil nature&#8221;. Of course, those people (&#8220;we&#8221;) are the ones who overran the world, and we also decided that the nomadic and semi-nomadic native peoples were also &#8220;simple killers possessed of an evil nature&#8221;, and therefore (since our agriculture and our livestock and our industries required more land to replace that to which we had already laid waste), we thought it was just fine to wipe them out right along with those bloodthirsty predators.</p>
<p>Thank goodness that the latter half of the twentieth century saw our kind beginning to look up from wantonly destroying wildlife, and listening to the saner minds among us, from John Muir and Adolph Murie, to Rachel Carson and Dian Fossey, and continuing with George Schaller and Jane Goodall. Even though habitat and wildlife destruction continues at an alarming rate around the globe, I am an optimist. I think there is hope for our kind yet, and just maybe there is hope for animals like the wolves too.</p>
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