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	<title>Comments on: Ivory-Billeds &amp; Idaho Grizzlies: Coming Quests</title>
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	<description>for Bigfoot, Loch Ness, and More</description>
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		<title>By: dogu4</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/griz-ibw-08/comment-page-1/#comment-37181</link>
		<dc:creator>dogu4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/griz-ibw-08/#comment-37181</guid>
		<description>Thanks DWA. Your take on this is about as reasonable and straightforward as it can be. Thanks for making it so clear.

I do have some suggestions as to research techniques which address why I think they have been only marginally successful and they inturn have to do with my feelings as to how these creatures have been characterized in the sense of their being naturally behaving creatures with some superior adaptations and intelligences which put them outside the mainstream of smart predators like wolves, wolverines and mountain lions, but the commonly held perceptons are understandable ( and might actually work if pursued persistently) considering how our generally correct understanding of our natural history&#039;s past and present is percieved by most people who are informed by the current accepted explaination of the way it is here and now.
I&#039;m a bit of a geek on this...but I think it&#039;s based on some unique perspective and experiences, untainted by orthodoxy, so to speak.
So, Paleobrute, what say you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks DWA. Your take on this is about as reasonable and straightforward as it can be. Thanks for making it so clear.</p>
<p>I do have some suggestions as to research techniques which address why I think they have been only marginally successful and they inturn have to do with my feelings as to how these creatures have been characterized in the sense of their being naturally behaving creatures with some superior adaptations and intelligences which put them outside the mainstream of smart predators like wolves, wolverines and mountain lions, but the commonly held perceptons are understandable ( and might actually work if pursued persistently) considering how our generally correct understanding of our natural history&#8217;s past and present is percieved by most people who are informed by the current accepted explaination of the way it is here and now.<br />
I&#8217;m a bit of a geek on this&#8230;but I think it&#8217;s based on some unique perspective and experiences, untainted by orthodoxy, so to speak.<br />
So, Paleobrute, what say you?</p>
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		<title>By: DWA</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/griz-ibw-08/comment-page-1/#comment-37180</link>
		<dc:creator>DWA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 13:10:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/griz-ibw-08/#comment-37180</guid>
		<description>paleobrute:

Your complaint can be answered in one sentence:  amateurs are the only ones looking for the sasquatch, and when they are asked questions, they come up with funny answers.

OK, two sentences.  If you have seen a sas, no matter who you are, you are suddenly either a liar, or a nut.

Truth is, LOTS of people are seeing these animals.  As I always say to folks here:  RSR!  (That is:  read sighting reports.)  They are not &quot;flimsy&quot; evidence, as I&#039;ve explained many times in many ways on this site.  (I&#039;m all over Cryptomundo; just do a search on &quot;sasquatch evidence.&quot;)

Sasquatch, like wolverines, wolves, grizzlies and bighorn sheep, tend to live in places people don&#039;t go.  But they frequently go to places people DO go.  Which is why they are seen, not so rarely, but so often.  Many sightings - contrary to what bleevers will tell you - are of sas looking into people&#039;s windows.  MANY - in fact most - are by hunters and motorists.  What I call the urban-ignoramus arguments against - why no body?  Why no photo?  Why no hunter etc.?  - tend to be, well, ignorant and naive.  And scientists - who should really know better - use them.

Ask yourself this question:  if you saw one - even if you got a clear photo - who would you come running back and blatt to?  Hmmmm?  (Before you answer, think of what happened to the Patterson-Gimlin film - a film that shows the subject, contrary to what seems popular belief, pretty damn clearly.)

Exactly.

Which is why I say the sas could be bigger, dumber, and more numerous than whatever the hell its numbers are, and still be unconfirmed by science.

Which is not the same thing as LOTS of people seeing them.

How many wildlife biologists, photographers, loggers, motorists, etc. do YOU think are keeping their lips pretty tightly sealed about what they&#039;ve seen - some about what they&#039;ve seen in the course of doing scientific research?  (Heck.  How many of them put a mask on, and make posts like yours on sites like this?)

My bet?  More than any of us would estimate.

How many wild wolves or wolverines have you seen?  Just checking.

Ask John Mionczynski.  If you don&#039;t know who he is, or think I&#039;m BSing you, you need to read more.  Because most of the people who have filed sighting reports were just like you - until they saw one.

Here&#039;s a good place to start.  I found this article a useful litmus test for scientific open-mindedness:

http://www.texasbigfoot.org/index.php/about-bigfoot/additional-resources/79

Read at your own risk.  ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>paleobrute:</p>
<p>Your complaint can be answered in one sentence:  amateurs are the only ones looking for the sasquatch, and when they are asked questions, they come up with funny answers.</p>
<p>OK, two sentences.  If you have seen a sas, no matter who you are, you are suddenly either a liar, or a nut.</p>
<p>Truth is, LOTS of people are seeing these animals.  As I always say to folks here:  RSR!  (That is:  read sighting reports.)  They are not &#8220;flimsy&#8221; evidence, as I&#8217;ve explained many times in many ways on this site.  (I&#8217;m all over Cryptomundo; just do a search on &#8220;sasquatch evidence.&#8221;)</p>
<p>Sasquatch, like wolverines, wolves, grizzlies and bighorn sheep, tend to live in places people don&#8217;t go.  But they frequently go to places people DO go.  Which is why they are seen, not so rarely, but so often.  Many sightings &#8211; contrary to what bleevers will tell you &#8211; are of sas looking into people&#8217;s windows.  MANY &#8211; in fact most &#8211; are by hunters and motorists.  What I call the urban-ignoramus arguments against &#8211; why no body?  Why no photo?  Why no hunter etc.?  &#8211; tend to be, well, ignorant and naive.  And scientists &#8211; who should really know better &#8211; use them.</p>
<p>Ask yourself this question:  if you saw one &#8211; even if you got a clear photo &#8211; who would you come running back and blatt to?  Hmmmm?  (Before you answer, think of what happened to the Patterson-Gimlin film &#8211; a film that shows the subject, contrary to what seems popular belief, pretty damn clearly.)</p>
<p>Exactly.</p>
<p>Which is why I say the sas could be bigger, dumber, and more numerous than whatever the hell its numbers are, and still be unconfirmed by science.</p>
<p>Which is not the same thing as LOTS of people seeing them.</p>
<p>How many wildlife biologists, photographers, loggers, motorists, etc. do YOU think are keeping their lips pretty tightly sealed about what they&#8217;ve seen &#8211; some about what they&#8217;ve seen in the course of doing scientific research?  (Heck.  How many of them put a mask on, and make posts like yours on sites like this?)</p>
<p>My bet?  More than any of us would estimate.</p>
<p>How many wild wolves or wolverines have you seen?  Just checking.</p>
<p>Ask John Mionczynski.  If you don&#8217;t know who he is, or think I&#8217;m BSing you, you need to read more.  Because most of the people who have filed sighting reports were just like you &#8211; until they saw one.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a good place to start.  I found this article a useful litmus test for scientific open-mindedness:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.texasbigfoot.org/index.php/about-bigfoot/additional-resources/79" rel="nofollow">http://www.texasbigfoot.org/index.php/about-bigfoot/additional-resources/79</a></p>
<p>Read at your own risk.  <img src='http://www.cryptomundo.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: paleobrute</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/griz-ibw-08/comment-page-1/#comment-37179</link>
		<dc:creator>paleobrute</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/griz-ibw-08/#comment-37179</guid>
		<description>AlbertaSasquatch responds:
December 2nd, 2007 at 3:00 pm
&quot;...Ah but it was a species known to once have existed and may still exist.&quot;

Yes, exactly- especially since that species is also KNOWN to have existed fairly recently (with the last century).  There is no proof that Bigfoot EVER existed and only very flimsy &#039;evidence&#039; Bigfoot exists now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AlbertaSasquatch responds:<br />
December 2nd, 2007 at 3:00 pm<br />
&#8220;&#8230;Ah but it was a species known to once have existed and may still exist.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, exactly- especially since that species is also KNOWN to have existed fairly recently (with the last century).  There is no proof that Bigfoot EVER existed and only very flimsy &#8216;evidence&#8217; Bigfoot exists now.</p>
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		<title>By: paleobrute</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/griz-ibw-08/comment-page-1/#comment-37178</link>
		<dc:creator>paleobrute</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/griz-ibw-08/#comment-37178</guid>
		<description>DOGU:  &quot;As far as cryptids are concerned, I think there might be a better chance of uncovering hard evidence of unidentified cryptids like Sasquatch while we’re using good science technique in pursuing other already known but persistently evasive species.&quot;

Exactly.  That&#039;s why it&#039;s so bemusing to see Bigfoot Bleevers mew about &quot;Well, Bigfoot lives in places where nobody goes!&quot; to which I reply Well then- how does anyone ever see these Bigfoot?  Then the Lack Of Bigfoot Proof apologists stutter and stammer and explain:  &quot;Well...well...there are no SCIENTIFIC RESEARCHERS working in Bigfoot area because science refuses to send researchers and so there&#039;s a lack of scientifically acceptable proof (or even evidence)!&quot;  to which I reply:  Well now...why does it have to a &quot;Bigfoot Expedition&quot; per se -?  There are PLENTY of scientific studies going on in alleged Bigfoot territory which if Bigfoot existed would almost certainly have afforded opportunities for wildlife researchers and photographers to capture definitive proof even if only &#039;coincidentally&#039;.  In other words, I don&#039;t have to be specifically hunting Bigfoot to see Bigfoot.  If I&#039;m a wildlife photographer in the Cascades up in the Pacific Northwest sitting in a blind waiting to get a shot of &#039;known&#039; wildlife and a Bigfoot saunters by, I&#039;d certainly take his photo.  The response from the Bleever ranks?................</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DOGU:  &#8220;As far as cryptids are concerned, I think there might be a better chance of uncovering hard evidence of unidentified cryptids like Sasquatch while we’re using good science technique in pursuing other already known but persistently evasive species.&#8221;</p>
<p>Exactly.  That&#8217;s why it&#8217;s so bemusing to see Bigfoot Bleevers mew about &#8220;Well, Bigfoot lives in places where nobody goes!&#8221; to which I reply Well then- how does anyone ever see these Bigfoot?  Then the Lack Of Bigfoot Proof apologists stutter and stammer and explain:  &#8220;Well&#8230;well&#8230;there are no SCIENTIFIC RESEARCHERS working in Bigfoot area because science refuses to send researchers and so there&#8217;s a lack of scientifically acceptable proof (or even evidence)!&#8221;  to which I reply:  Well now&#8230;why does it have to a &#8220;Bigfoot Expedition&#8221; per se -?  There are PLENTY of scientific studies going on in alleged Bigfoot territory which if Bigfoot existed would almost certainly have afforded opportunities for wildlife researchers and photographers to capture definitive proof even if only &#8216;coincidentally&#8217;.  In other words, I don&#8217;t have to be specifically hunting Bigfoot to see Bigfoot.  If I&#8217;m a wildlife photographer in the Cascades up in the Pacific Northwest sitting in a blind waiting to get a shot of &#8216;known&#8217; wildlife and a Bigfoot saunters by, I&#8217;d certainly take his photo.  The response from the Bleever ranks?&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: AlbertaSasquatch</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/griz-ibw-08/comment-page-1/#comment-37177</link>
		<dc:creator>AlbertaSasquatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 19:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/griz-ibw-08/#comment-37177</guid>
		<description>27 Million!Just because one small group of people supposedly caught a IBW on film.  Oh yeah but they were from Cornell so thats why. How many sightings of IBW have there been in the last 5 or so decades. Now how many Sasquatch sightings have there been in the last 5 or so decades.  I bet theres thousands more Sasquatch sightings than IBW sightings. I&#039;ve seen a clip from the film and I think the PGF looks a lot better than that.  Ah but it was a species known to once have existed and may still exist.  We need a body folks because if they are willing to fork out 27 million for an animal that small, just think what they would fork out for sasquatch if it was proved to be real.  270 million maybe lol.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>27 Million!Just because one small group of people supposedly caught a IBW on film.  Oh yeah but they were from Cornell so thats why. How many sightings of IBW have there been in the last 5 or so decades. Now how many Sasquatch sightings have there been in the last 5 or so decades.  I bet theres thousands more Sasquatch sightings than IBW sightings. I&#8217;ve seen a clip from the film and I think the PGF looks a lot better than that.  Ah but it was a species known to once have existed and may still exist.  We need a body folks because if they are willing to fork out 27 million for an animal that small, just think what they would fork out for sasquatch if it was proved to be real.  270 million maybe lol.</p>
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		<title>By: mystery_man</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/griz-ibw-08/comment-page-1/#comment-37176</link>
		<dc:creator>mystery_man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:59:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/griz-ibw-08/#comment-37176</guid>
		<description>The thing that is sad for me is that sometimes this kind of money or resources isn&#039;t adequately put into the conservation of the species BEFORE it becomes extinct or severely threatened. All too often you get some species that were wiped out by man, either intentionally or not, and then suddenly a surviving one is found and everyone wants to pour money in to save the it. Hindsight sure is 20/20, wouldn&#039;t you say? I tend to favor a more holistic approach in that I&#039;d like to see more money spent now on species that are not yet quite on the brink, before it is too late.

Motion sensitive cameras and &quot;fur grabbers&quot;? These guys are getting all the cool toys. Best of luck to them. Maybe those sort of fur grabbers could be employed with sasquatch research as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing that is sad for me is that sometimes this kind of money or resources isn&#8217;t adequately put into the conservation of the species BEFORE it becomes extinct or severely threatened. All too often you get some species that were wiped out by man, either intentionally or not, and then suddenly a surviving one is found and everyone wants to pour money in to save the it. Hindsight sure is 20/20, wouldn&#8217;t you say? I tend to favor a more holistic approach in that I&#8217;d like to see more money spent now on species that are not yet quite on the brink, before it is too late.</p>
<p>Motion sensitive cameras and &#8220;fur grabbers&#8221;? These guys are getting all the cool toys. Best of luck to them. Maybe those sort of fur grabbers could be employed with sasquatch research as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Munnin</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/griz-ibw-08/comment-page-1/#comment-37175</link>
		<dc:creator>Munnin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:54:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/griz-ibw-08/#comment-37175</guid>
		<description>Very interesting! Thanks for another great article (as usual). I&#039;m glad to see an increase in the present range of our Brown bears; I doubt we&#039;ll see them moving back here to California any time soon, though. And I&#039;ve seen Pileated woodpeckers several times... they are very impressive birds. But what an amazing thing it would be to see a living Ivory Bill! Like Bob K., I wonder about the viability of a Polar/Grizzly bear hybrid in the wild, especially when raised in typical Polar bear habitat. My understanding is that Polar bears have genetic adaptations (in the hair and feet, among other features) which pre-dispose them to survival in their icy habitat on a strictly carnivorous diet. Could a hybrid without the same kind of hollow, translucent fur, the larger feet, and the shorter claws, etc., survive to maturity? It&#039;s fun to consider the possibility, anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting! Thanks for another great article (as usual). I&#8217;m glad to see an increase in the present range of our Brown bears; I doubt we&#8217;ll see them moving back here to California any time soon, though. And I&#8217;ve seen Pileated woodpeckers several times&#8230; they are very impressive birds. But what an amazing thing it would be to see a living Ivory Bill! Like Bob K., I wonder about the viability of a Polar/Grizzly bear hybrid in the wild, especially when raised in typical Polar bear habitat. My understanding is that Polar bears have genetic adaptations (in the hair and feet, among other features) which pre-dispose them to survival in their icy habitat on a strictly carnivorous diet. Could a hybrid without the same kind of hollow, translucent fur, the larger feet, and the shorter claws, etc., survive to maturity? It&#8217;s fun to consider the possibility, anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: dogu4</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/griz-ibw-08/comment-page-1/#comment-37174</link>
		<dc:creator>dogu4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/griz-ibw-08/#comment-37174</guid>
		<description>I always enjoy these &quot;exception to the rule&quot; scenarios with nature...there are so many, I think a compendium of them would stack-up nicely against the rules themselves...and hybridizations, both wild and non-wild, really highlight the unexamined relationships and intricacies of the natural processes and we are learning a lot...huzzah!
As far as cryptids are concerned, I think there might be a better chance of uncovering hard evidence of unidentified cryptids like Sasquatch while we&#039;re using good science technique in pursuing other already known but persistently evasive species.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always enjoy these &#8220;exception to the rule&#8221; scenarios with nature&#8230;there are so many, I think a compendium of them would stack-up nicely against the rules themselves&#8230;and hybridizations, both wild and non-wild, really highlight the unexamined relationships and intricacies of the natural processes and we are learning a lot&#8230;huzzah!<br />
As far as cryptids are concerned, I think there might be a better chance of uncovering hard evidence of unidentified cryptids like Sasquatch while we&#8217;re using good science technique in pursuing other already known but persistently evasive species.</p>
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		<title>By: mystery_man</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/griz-ibw-08/comment-page-1/#comment-37173</link>
		<dc:creator>mystery_man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2007 14:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/griz-ibw-08/#comment-37173</guid>
		<description>Loren, I am partial to the term &quot;hybrid vigor&quot; myself and the 60s were way before my time. The word still gets plenty of play from myself. And yes, it most definitely does occur.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Loren, I am partial to the term &#8220;hybrid vigor&#8221; myself and the 60s were way before my time. The word still gets plenty of play from myself. And yes, it most definitely does occur.</p>
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		<title>By: Loren Coleman</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/griz-ibw-08/comment-page-1/#comment-37172</link>
		<dc:creator>Loren Coleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2007 13:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/griz-ibw-08/#comment-37172</guid>
		<description>One of my favorite terms from my 1960s&#039; undergraduate studies in zoology was &quot;hybrid vigor.&quot;  It seemed to so clearly capture what happened in one clear phrase.

Today, I understand the term more frequently used is &lt;em&gt;heterosis&lt;/em&gt; (instead of &quot;hybrid vigor&quot; or &quot;outbreeding enhancement&quot;) to describe the increased strength of different characteristics in hybrids; the possibility to obtain a &quot;better&quot; individual by combining the virtues of its parents.

Still, I like &quot;hybrid vigor.&quot;

I&#039;ve seen it in action, and it does occur.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of my favorite terms from my 1960s&#8217; undergraduate studies in zoology was &#8220;hybrid vigor.&#8221;  It seemed to so clearly capture what happened in one clear phrase.</p>
<p>Today, I understand the term more frequently used is <em>heterosis</em> (instead of &#8220;hybrid vigor&#8221; or &#8220;outbreeding enhancement&#8221;) to describe the increased strength of different characteristics in hybrids; the possibility to obtain a &#8220;better&#8221; individual by combining the virtues of its parents.</p>
<p>Still, I like &#8220;hybrid vigor.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen it in action, and it does occur.</p>
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