Mary Green Goes Ballistic
Posted by: Loren Coleman on October 11th, 2006
On Tuesday, October 10, 2006, Cryptomundo began to receive emails from Mary Green demanding that a photograph that was reprinted here from a Will Duncan posting – which supported Duncan’s pro-Carter farm position – be removed from our site. It has now been removed. Allow me to share the background and emails regarding this exchange. As can be seen in these emails, Mary Green has given her permission for these emails to be posted fully so you all can see what an evil person I am. Intriguingly, her call for the photograph to be taken down has ended up censoring the “evidence” of her own claims.
The backstory begins with an email Green sent along to the Editor on this site, reminding Cryptomundo that her book “has an ISBN number,” and stating that “legally, you cannot use a photograph…without our permission.”
Green also noted: “It’s bad enough you allow such trash to be written about us which are slanderous and will be dealt with eventually, without your allowing others or yourself to post a photograph from this book. You are NOT using this for educational purposes either!”
Trying to take a reasonable tone, I wrote, in reply:
Loren Coleman:
The Cryptomundo site’s use of the stated photograph for the critique of the material cited falls under the fair use provisions of the U.S. Copyright Law. In allowing for fair use of copyrighted material–for reporting news, conducting research, and teaching–without need to obtain the copyright holder’s permission, the U.S. Copyright Law says that fair use is determined in a particular case by considering (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; (2) the nature of the copyrighted work; (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
I pointed out to Green that hers was not a “valid argument against the review, critiquing, and consideration of the minor material that was posted allegedly from it.”
I let Green know that if I removed the photo, I would allow my readers at Cryptomundo an insight into why this was happening, of course. I mentioned that: “As it is now, our discussion encourages both sides of the debate and leads to potential sales of your book.”
Green’s reply, giving her response and side of history, was as follows, here given without any edits:
Mary Green:
You go right ahead and spew forth more lies. There are many. I do have a right to ask you to remove this photograph, and you are not falling under any category of the copyright laws, and in fact, you are threatening me if I continue to ask you to remove it. I am simply asking you to remove a copyrighted photograph from your site which is simply nothing more than a blog type situation. It doesn’t attract anyone but those who wish to gossip. It also doesn’t say anything for your character either. Refusal to remove a copyright photograph shows your stubbornness and ill will, as usual, toward any respectful communication between Janice Carter and myself. Janice was never approached by your brother, Jerry Coleman, yet he says she refused to comply with an interview. In fact, he drove up and talked with her one day in September, not knowing who she was, and talked to the gentleman who was with Janice and when she approached, Janice asked if she could be of some help to your brother, Jerry Coleman, and Bob Coppen, and Gerry Bacon. They said NO. One of the men shook her hand, and they simply drove off, refusing to speak with her. So post this is you feel is necessary, but I will not be threatened when you are the wrong doer. Just because you don’t believe in our work, doesn’t mean you can break a copyright law by using a fair use act on a blog web site gossip fest, and also make statements about us, such as Cartergate, Follow the money. We are not of the type that wants to sell books just for the sake of selling them. This may be your motive, using negative and false and misleading statements in order to sell your type of books which are simply words taken from others about their sightings, and not of your own personal experience, and publishing the same thing over and over again. If that’s the way you choose to do business, fine, but it’s not a very honest way of making a living. That is my opinion of the matter only. If you can make money like that, go for it. I don’t care. I made a simple request to have you remove a copyright photograph, and if you do not wish to honor it, then post this if you like. I’m sure if I had a photograph posted on my web site without you permission from one of your books, you would raise holy war against me, which you do any way and have since the first time I made my first post on the old IVBC group. You insisted back then that I could not have seen a bigfoot in Tennessee, simply because you thought there were none here. Please, and I’m asking you kindly, remove a family photograph, which does support our case for how woodsy the farm was back then, as most people look at this case from NOW, and not as it was in 1944-45 and on up to the time Janice left the farm after her grandfather died and her grandmother had to go into a nursing home. It doesn’t matter about what your idea is on why you think this photograph should be there. I’ve asked for a courtesy for you to remove the photograph because it is not your photograph to use without asking permission to use it from a copyright and registered work. Just because you found it used on the cryptozoology.com forum board, does not make it right for you to reuse it without asking permission. Don’t tell me it’s not my right to politely request you to do so, because I know it is. I don’t wish to cause problems, but I do not think it serves you any purpose to have it there in the first place. A link to it from your blog to the crypto forum is in better order because you did not ask permission to use it. You knew it was a copyrighted photograph before you took it upon yourself to personally use it without permission. We were not extended any common courtesy for use of said photograph. I have always asked for permission to use someone else’s photographs and writings and I expect the same courtesy to be paid back to me, no matter what your opinion of me is. I don’t frighten, nor do I scare easily when someone threatens me as you have done in this e-mail. It would leave me with no recourse but to post publicly about your refusal to be kind hearted and honest and remove it when asked politely to do so. I also know you will edit this and post just what you want this to say, but if so, I will post it all in its entirety before you edited it as many have found that you do in your yahoo e-mail groups, blogs, etc. You may try to make me into some type of horrible person for asking you to remove a photograph belonging to a copyrighted book and its authors. It is just whatever you wish to do, Mr. Coleman. I suppose all of the books I have purchased of yours and support I’ve given you by sending others to you to buy your books was a part of my so called hostility now simply because I asked you to remove a photograph that does not belong to you.
I think Mary Green’s unedited email speaks for itself. I then shared with her my reply, based on information just sent to me by my brother:
Loren Coleman:
According to a new development, Mr. Will Duncan says this photograph is not from your book. Since the photograph was never taken from your book but via Mr. Duncan’s posting, and it is now being said to not be from your book,
this entire communication appears to be unnecessary.
Green replied, not addressing my email points at all but, once again, sharing her tantrum with me via:
Mary Green:
YOU have a copy of my book. There’s no excuse for you not to look in my book and see it is there. Your tone is the one that is dismaying. The number on the photograph are also those in my book. We published that photograph in the book and NOTHING has been changed since then. I suppose your time is so precious to you and not to me. What a waste of a human being you are. This goes along with the untruths from you in the past. Needless to say I will make a point of this in public forums. I am also sending this e-mail to Mr. Duncan. He knows full well this is a photograph 50 Years.
Green need not have threatened me about editing her words, as she does several times in these emails. Her comments, even the ones containing incorrect or biased data, are fully here for all to read.
People can judge what they wish about this interaction. Needless to say, while I was the messenger regarding Jerry Coleman’s investigation, and opening this to both sides of the discussion of the debate – as did occur in the comments section here – it is obvious Green likes to make things personal.
This all is unfortunate, but shows much about the personality of Mary Green, who wants us all to believe she has some truths to tell us about her Bigfoot in Tennessee. If she is so afraid of a published photograph here that supports her position and the discussion it stimulates, what else is being hidden?
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WARNING: Off-topic, profane, and off-color comments are grounds for deletions via automatic software, automatic editing, robotic scans, and human editors. This is a kid-friendly site and shall remain so. This is not a chatboard, open forum, and/or email exchange arena. Comments are heavily edited and no explanations of said actions will be forthcoming, so we can get on to the business of reporting the next story.
- Similar Phenomena:
I knew she was a kook. Sadly enough, she gives tennessee bigfoot hunters a bad name. Oh well, it’s up to me to make it good again! Hahaha!
Loren, I feel bad for you man. You seem to get all the crazies.
Threats? Sorry, I must have missed that part of your e-mail Loren. Or was posting her e-mail the threat?
LOL! she sounds like a crazy person…
Loren,
I am always appreciative of how calm and even handed you are in both your work and in the administration of this site. Why is it though, that so many people in the field are simple nutters? I understand that UFOs may attract a certain ilk but why Cryptozoology? I consider this field an emerging science that stands at the cusp of casting off people like Mary Green and Tom Biscardi and instead concentrating on pure science and research. Wackos like Green, Biscardi, and the Carters (for whom I feel more sympathy than anything) only hurt the cause of exploration and discovery.
You should have let that fool have it. I would have roasted her.
Too funny.
You are a far more patient man than I Mr. Coleman.
At least she gave us a laugh.
Does she have cats?
I have been told that they still make “moon shine” in them thar hills..Perhaps she partakes of a wee bit….
Loren: if the photo was not from her book……..then what was its origin that can be documented.
mary green the tennessee bigfoot …once again proving how if you dont walk lock step with her she spews —– out of her mouth at an amazing rate.
my career was in law enforcement. mostly as a shift supervisor [Sgt] in a prison. in all my years of dealing with con men criminals and plain idiots you see this behavior when attempting to respond to legitimate questions asked of them. this is the so called dazzle them with bull— response when you have no basis in fact with which to respond.
i have read field notes or reports from mary green that are so far into the fantasy and dream world there should be no wonder why she is listed with the likes of biscardi as con artists. go look thru her web pages.you have to search some cause she will “retire” on day from squatching and the next show up with some other group. she routinely pulls down her web sites when people figure her out and start questioning why she has all 10 fingers and toes in the dam of —- she has spun.
the more i hear janice talk i realise she is probably of limited intelligence and has been completely “handled” by mary green. mary has probably spent years filling her head with the stories and answers to build this world of fantasy that is the story of the years with fox the garlic eating talking bigfoot and his kin.
mary green has never answered any questions posed to her. she only fumbles around them till she angers those asking [a well thought out plan of hers] to the point she can type out several pages of xxxxxxxx like she did here.
this all said , the story of her janice and the farm are apart of squatchery as a whole. the troubling part is she wont stop and we must re-address this every time a new excited squatcher comes along thinking the mystery is solved lest we only go to the farm and get the proof. after all squatches are running around there in higher numbers the the cigarettes janice smokes a day. i mean if this clan of squatches are there why haven’t we seen any pictures of anything except pretty trees and lots of big red circles? well cause its all BS. isn’t it mary? come on i know your dieing to tell the truth. hell you might squeeze a few more minutes of fame out of it.
shame on you mary for taking advantage of the challenges janice must face and her fantasies for your own profit. while i am sure she has gone along with all this she is nothing more than your dancing bear. happily replaying all the tricks you taught her by throwing small treats her way. both of you are poster children for the looney tunes that some non squatchers think we are.
everything you touch is tainted with the foul order of dishonesty. you and biscardi should take this show on the road. then tom can say for sure where this hand and other body parts came from. im sure with further testing the arm will have high concentrations of garlic in its tissue.
mary if you have any self respect left you will quietly fade away or come clean. your a joke. on every bigfoot forum we draw mary green red circles around shadows in every picture to show all the squatches hiding just behind the tree line. we see mary green squatches in every photo of landscape. after all, the hiding squatches are easier to make up than real ones we could see. we hear them singing to their children at night. are you starting to get the picture? its a picture of all the crap you have shoveled over the years.
sadly what went from just looking for attention and the good feeling you got from others when you reported this stuff has turned into the good feeling others get when they laugh at you and your actions.
is all your self respect gone?
you may have really saw or photographed a sasquatch, but no one will ever believe it cause of the joke you made your self into.
finally, when people research crypto stuff like those who come to this site we can use any thing we want to learn from. i will bet none of the founders of cryptomundo are making a dime off this site. they are presenting info for others to learn. you dont have to be a fake lawyer to know that’s allowed.
so tell me, without screaming, yelling and running on about drivel, how did posting that picture harm you physically or financially. i will bet not one person saw that photo and said thank goodness i saw that now i won’t have to go buy the book.
Not to suggest that all of what has been said by Coy , and Green is true , but there are a few unrelated sightings reports on various web sites from that nearby area. See GCBRO 3/02 Louden county. This spot, ( using Google Earth), seems only about 15 miles or so from the Carter farm.
I read another account on another site that sounded very credible wich occured in the same area , but I can’t remember wich site.
The two hunters left a very descriptive story of the encounter.
I must say, however, one WOULD expect a good photo after 50 years of these visits. Certainly the gal could have tricked “Fox” into a brief photo shoot.
The only thing worse than a lawyer is someone who thinks they are a lawyer.
Since the photograph was taken from an airplane, and probibly from an air survey, it is very possible that Mary Green does not own the original photograph. That would belong under copyright laws to the original photographer. That while lines and numbers were added, they are not substancial enough to create a copyright of its own. So Ms. Green could be in civil violation for originally posting the photo in her book in the first place. And the original copyright holder could sue for damages including all profits made from the book for using an unauthorized copyright. Mrs. Green may have openned up a can of worms in her own face.
It seems Mr.Coleman puts in long hours.
Check out the times on his posts,I am saddend to see that his hard work is not apreciated.I saw the photo and you can all see my home on terraserver.
BIG DEAL!Hang in there Loren!
Back in early days, people would fly over farms to sell the photo to the owners. Still happens today some.
Mr. Duncan submitted a photo during one of the threads running on this subject. A Mr. Coppen (I think) answered that the picture in the book and on the thread were similar. The photo from Mr. Duncan however, had the numbers aligned differently. Which this detail was quickly pointed out.
So would that be a copyright infringement?
Typical Mary Green BS. And it will always be just that. She’s not in control of it. She can’t gloss it over.
A couple of years ago I also had a email spat with Mary. It was over some photos of bigfoot bending trees down and making other things. I called her on it, with my comparisons of natural happenings in wooded areas. It ended with her comparing me to her ex husband and how he held her down mentally, etc. That was the best she could do.
Whoa, Mary Green …someone`s suddenly gettin really defensive!!
I’ve had a few emails with Mary and I actually feel bad for her. She and Janice are both rather limited as far as education and all that goes with, but she also has some serious health problems that probably contribute to her angry rants.
Ok, I have to chime in here. I love this book, and I still find all this hostility towards Mary and Janice quite funny.
You people just don’t like her or believe her. Why? Is it because she has published things that you “don’t believe”?
I find it funny that over and over and over again people say…
“She and Janice are both rather limited as far as education and all that goes with”
But what nobody wants to admit, (because hardly anyone of you folks had read the book), is that THE BOOK IS VERY WELL WRITTEN AND MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. If Mary is such a dumb dumb, how did she write a book that is really fun to read and seems pretty plausable? Did she just get lucky? Of course nobody here will be able to answer that question, because very few of you have actually read the book. People on this blog are too busy bad mouthing Mary to stop and wonder how she made up the whole thing? How much research did she have to do to make this up? How did she come up with all these original ideas about BigFoot? The woman must be totally brilliant and know all Bigfoot stories inside and out, because her “made up” stuff sounds somewhat convincing and fits really well into Bigfoot lore.
Yes, there are many things in the book that are quite strange. (Why does nobody discuss the “Blue Urine”?) Oh wait, that is because nobody has read the book.
Why does not anyone discuss the picture of “Blackie” in the tree-line? Oh wait, nobody here has read the book. I mean if everything in the book is made up, did Mary go and buy/rent a gorilla costume and have someone go out to the treeline and pose as a BF? Is that what really happened? If that is the case, then wow, she is really going to a lot of effort to make her “fantasy” seem real.
Of course, I am sure the readers of this blog will wonder who I am, and what connection to Mary and Janice I have. (I must have some kind of connection since I keep defending Mary, right?).
So in conclusion, you can bad mouth Mary all you want, but until you read her book, you don’t really know of what you talk about. Which is like 95% of you people here.
scrambeledeggman Says:
“The woman must be totally brilliant and know all Bigfoot stories inside and out, because her “made up” stuff sounds somewhat convincing and fits really well into Bigfoot lore.”
Judging by the literary quality of Mary Green’s vituperative outburst here, I would not accuse the lady of being “totally brilliant” nor would I suspect that her book might be “VERY WELL WRITTEN AND MAKES A LOT OF SENSE”. (No, I have not read it. If the book is as well written as these emails, I don’t really know if I really want to read it.) She kind of reminds me of Annie Wilkes, except I don’t think she’s Loren’s Number One Fan.
“How much research did she have to do to make this up? How did she come up with all these original ideas about BigFoot?”
It doesn’t take great brilliance to rehash and repeat stories that have been commonly available for decades to anyone with a library card or a TV. And hey, anybody with an imagination can invent stories with fantastic details and SAY they true; who can prove they aren’t?
Anybody remember the Amityville Horror? They said for years that that was real, too.
Hey Scram, you really made me laugh out loud with your evil Muhahahah laugh! That made my day! I could just hear it and picture you rubbing your hands together in glee! Made me think of Prof. Moriarity too! Perhaps a borderline insane/ genius type? Nahahahah!
There are many folks that comment here regularly that seldom have anything nice to say about anything on this website. The always critical comments really turn me off, which is why I don’t frequent this space much anymore.
I am always amazed at the loonies that crawl out of the woodwork over the stupidest things.
Jackowenspillman – What the heck are you talking about? I really haven’t noticed that, the majority of people here seem very interested in the subject matter.
Good evening Cryptofans…
I have read Mary’s book…twice…and have to say it’s an intriguing difficult read…somewhat lurid with Janice’s description of Blackie’s sexual exploits…JMHO
I ordered the book, it arrived promptly inscribed with a personal handwritten note. I’ve exchanged pleasant emails with Mary once or twice and found her to be “down home country folk”.
My interest in this “case” was tweaked by the appearance of Professor Igor on the National Geographic special….yup his re-enactment was comical…however the penciled sketches posted here…were worth more than a thousand words…IMHO
I’ve followed both sides of this debate for some time and found it but one of many…raging within the esoteric world of Sasquatchery…JMHO
There are much bigger tales of the enigma of Sasquatch than this one…next door in Kentucky’s ORV is a good example.
seeing is believing…
ole bub and the dawgs
Yousawhat!, Yes I am familier with photos being sold by air survey companys. One of my friends has a pair of pics in his dining room. Before and after photos of his ranch from the Mt. St. Helens eruption. But he was sold the Print. Not the negative or copyright. A company would never sell the copyright as that would prevent them from selling more pics in the future.
I must honestly say that this is one of the tamest, even handed, and tolerant websites I have seen. There seems to be a desire of everyone here to speak politely to each other even when we disagree.
Honest criticism and skepticism don’t mean that the people here are cruel. It means that we are trying to deal with sensitive issues as adults.
The mods run a tight ship here IMHO.
You know, Loren seems like such a sweet guy, I wonder why it is he seems to make so many people mad?
Actually, I don’t really have to wonder, as it seems clear that he remains civil and patient to the last and allows the other fellow to say whatever it is they feel they have to say, ad infinitum. Nothing so infuriates a belligerent, argumentative person with few facts at their disposal but plenty of insults as not taking their bait or falling for their traps.
Keep up the good work, Loren!
Here I go again…
First of all, I was going to spend hard earned money on the book but now I think nahhhhh.
Second of all, If you don’t like the exchange of ideas and don’t want to read people’s opinions don’t read the comments accompanying the articles. If you don’t like scrutiny don’t write books or web pages.
Mary Green makes herself look really bad.—
Aleta
I second MountDesertIslander’s statements. Most every other blog I’ve come across has been largely composed of people of the “If you don’t agree with me, you suck” mentality (To put it mildly).
I think this little community is only strengthened by the diversity of its members. For those of you who’ve been here awhile, think about it- We’ve got professional scientists and armchair enthusiasts; avid hunters and people opposed to hunting; hardcore believers and staunch skeptics; outdoorsmen/naturalists and city-folk who seldom (If ever) have even been in the woods; proponants of evolution and creationists; and so on. We’ve got Brits, Ruskies, Canadians, Americans, Israelis, Africans, First Nations members, and so on.
And although we often disagree, we almost always do so amicably. And in so doing, we learn from one another, much more so than we would if we were all just shouting expletives at each other.
I’ll get down off the soap box and tell the humming chorus to knock it off now, but I felt it had to be said. Thank you all.
I find the exchange between Mary Green and Loren a real ‘downer.’ If Mary wanted the picture removed then, it should have been removed and stated it was at her request, period. Much ado about nothing. As for the demeaning characterizations of Mary or Janice as a kook, a crazie, a fool, a loonie it does make one wonder what kind of mean spirited people would write such things about another person. Totally out of line. No, I am no relation to Mary Green and yes, Diane, I am willing for Loren to get the few cents he gets by my visiting his blog.
quill asks “Does she have cats?” Naw, Bigfoot ate them a long time ago.
I’m not sure what “Diane” is being addressed here by Judy Green, and figure Ms. Green is responding to something on some list, not this blog.
Anyway, it one of the myths of the Internet lists promoted by certain individuals that in some fashion I get money every time someone comes here to read this blog.
Come on, folks. That’s so silly as to be absurd. How in the world would that work?
Anyway, just to be totally clear, once again, I get absolutely nothing when someone reads this page.
If someone knows how such a magical thing could work, I’d love to hear about it.
Whoever started that rumor, I’m sorry to say, is apparently delusional and jealous of money I don’t have.
Seems like whereever Mary Green parks her broom, it’s not long before a hand bag fight starts. This is getting very OLD, but wait till the Maryite’s show up (here), they will set us straight and lead us down the path of BF rightousness and the glory there within. For MG speaketh only the truth to her flock of well trained SHEEP
Greetings from Algood, Tennessee, home of internet famous bigfoot reseacher Mary Green. Imagine my suprise when I realized a big time bigfoot researcher lived only a few blocks from my golf course subdivision.
Even more amazing was all the bigfoot activity going on in Putnam and Overton, County Tennessee where I have lived, hunted, fished, kayaked, canoed, camped, surveyed and crawled over from end to end for the past 15 years.
WOW! I didn’t know that all the wind storms and tornados and ice storms and logging were not the real causes of the twisted trees and saplings that litter the ENTIRE countryside around these parts. I am surrounded by bigfoot territorial markers. My undergraduate degree in forestry didn’t teach me a thing!
Thanks Mary for setting me straight.
I followed up on most of the reports Mary listed in her website and revisited many of the areas. Funny thing, most of the law enforcement, hunters, loggers and real natives of this area seem really puzzled that at all the bigfoot reports they have never heard of. The hiking clubs, caving clubs, environmental organizations, are all in wonder of the invasion of hairy hominids we have around here. Particularly, when they haven’t seen anything.
I have read in gaped mouth awe of Mary’s posted snipe – er – bigfoot expeditions around here. My minor in wildlife science didn’t help me at all in understanding her in depth research methods, and my five years as a park ranger and tracker roaming all over the Southern Appalachians from Georgia to Kentucky didn’t help either.
Now, I have been places in the Southeast that could support whole tribes of Cryptids, be they Bigfoot or Mothmen or dinosaurs, but they ain’t hanging around in droves ’round here.
I could go on, but I’ve been around these parts for a loooong time. I now practice law here, I’ve probably represented every looney, meth head and pot hermit around, I’ve walked the land, I’ve looked and listened. Ms. Green, bless her heart is entertaining, its a well put together show, but after all is said and done, its a show.
Have people experienced the unexplainable around here, yes indeed.
As I have said before 95 per cent is manufactured hookey, mistakes or wishful thinking. Five percent is mystery and wonder. And THERE is where you’ll find the truth. Sadly, Ms. Green is in my humble opinion part of the show, not the mystery.
I am surprised at how polarizing this issue seems to be. I find that character attacks and analysis-at-a-distance can loom so heavily in written words, particularly the nearly-instantaneous-audience participation sort of things that blogs, forums, mailservers, etc…
(speaking from personal experience as an oft-embarassed culprit)
I love the Carter story – and regardless of education, writing style, dialect, or other trappings of the storytellers, the picture that emerges is a gem of what can be respectfully called folklore, appearing on the edge of common credibility like a loon at dusk, with the same impact as something as unexpected and unverifiable as say, any other Bigfoot sighting (to-date).
Faith can make you crazy, blind you, or it can lead you to real knowledge, but it cannot be given as a present or transferred, intact, to another. So that is where the shared language of science makes a good tool.
“Folklore” doesn’t always equal fiction, but that is the best “tag” I have heard of to place on the Carter farm “Fox” tale.
Okay, just to clarify one last thing with regard to Mary Green’s misinformed use of the word “threat,” what I said to her was what I mentioned above: if I removed the photograph which I think did not have to be removed due to fair use sanctions, I was going to do it with an explanation to my readership here. I removed it, and I explained why.
That was no “threat,” but merely what I have done before, for example regarding the Maine Mutant photos.
As I noted above: “I let Green know that if I removed the photo, I would allow my readers at Cryptomundo an insight into why this was happening, of course.”
For those that think I did not “mention” the alleged “threat” in my backstory, of course, since I did not see this as a “threat,” but had already mentioned this, there seemed no need to note this specifically. However, absence of an overt mention is now apparently being made into a mountain by some. It reminds me of Hitler’s big lie. If an explanation or future action is called a “threat,” even if it never was, often enough, some people begin to believe a “threat” existed.
Incredible.
drink the cool aid scrambeldeggman. most have either read the book or researched it in depth. it is one of the first thing most new squatchers come upon when they are really excited about squatching.
i think the pic your talking about is another famous mary green red circle photo. she sees sometimes 10 bigfoot on one 30 yard section of tree line. i mean come one.
i did say that they [ her or janice] probably did have an encounter or may have a god’s honest encounter in the future, but it will be meaningless and not given an ounce of credit because of their history with all things bigfoot. her credibility is long gone. dont worry so is tom biscardi’s , but the so called “one born every minute” still gives him enough attention to keep it interesting.
i gotta tell you i dont know how much money these books have made, but from the film and pictures i have seen she and janice live in filth and squaller. you can be extremely poor but still be clean. you should have enough self respect to clean your self up when your going to do an interview to try tell your story to the world. first impressions and all that. or 40th impressions as the case may be. marys mouth must be lined with toe jam as much as she has had her foot in it.
ooo ooo but what about squeaky in the magical enclosed barrel you ask. i have seen video of singing aliens that look better. this may very well be one of those aliens caught morphing into the barrel. it is so inconclusive its meaningless. hell it cold be a pad pixel or something.
they made their bed and they planted their fields,blah blah blah you know the rest of the cliche so i wont boor you with it.
instead of the years with bigfoot book she should have done a children’s book along the lines of “i spy” or “where’s waldo” called where the Sasquatch. every page could be full of normal every day nature scenes and your to find all 30 sasquatches in 2 minutes or less.
scrambledeggman believes in mary green? so tell him what hes won bob. (the price is right theme plays in the back ground.)
she brought all of the ridicule and scepticism on her self. she is reaping the whirlwind per say.
Loren,
Don’t you find it rather telling that I was told not to speak of or think of Green and Coy. Then Green complains to you about your posts, and what you “ALLOW” posted on your site.
It appears to me that since the ‘because I said so’ strategy did not work very well that they have now moved onto the ’shut up or else’ tactic. The part about “It’s bad enough you allow such trash to be written about us which are slanderous and will be dealt with eventually,” is comical. This gossip they speak of came right from her own site! I am talking about the critter cam film debacle. It is on her site on page 4 of the Carter farm updates. Wonder how long before she pulls it down?
I can truly commiserate with you, Loren.
You guys make my day. Thanks.
I have to say, after looking through the Bigfoot Lady’s website, I don’t know how anybody could believe that any of the so-called evidence they show has anything to do with any large, bipedal homonoid other than Homo sapiens.
The “Bigfoot scats” : If those poo piles are Sasquatch scats, then our little Arabian horse must be a Sasquatch, too, because his “scat” looks just like that.
The “Bigfoot nests” : they look just like the debris I see every year after the spring flooding. Oh, yeah, and sometimes after autumn flooding too.
The “braided manes” of the llamas (and presumably the ponies, etc.) : simply sad examples of confined, never-groomed animals with natural mats forming in their coats.
The “twisted trees” : a few years back, the central and eastern parts of Tennessee, Kentucky, and parts of the Carolinas and northern Georgia experienced severe ice storms, 2 winters in a row. The damage from the ice storms is still everywhere; there was just too much widespread damage to vegetation and states were overwhelmed with the cleanup. Much of that shredded wood is still hanging around. Bigfoot must run rampant in downtown Lexington, KY, for example, because lots of trees there look just like the ones Bigfoot used for toys on the Carter farm.
The “black shape by the culvert” : kudzu or honeysucke vines (monsters in their own right) in shadow. The winter picture of the same culvert that is presented as “proof” was obviously shot from a different angle, distance and in different light situation. The culvert across the creek from my house here in Kentucky looks just like that in the summer, because we finally gave up battling the Plant that Ate the South (Kudzu)
The hair samples : with so many different types of animals around, there could be two dozen kinds of hair sifting around the place. I have lived and worked with animals of many types for many years. I know animal hair. It gets around.
The “extra-large nits”, “larger than those that humans get” : sadly, this is compelling evidence of possible animal neglect. It sounds like dog lice. They are quite large; the nits are a bit bigger than stick-pin heads, and they clot the fur of infested animals. Almost anybody who sees as many dogs as I do knows about dog lice. They infest mainly strays and animals kept in very unsanitary conditions and never bathed or brushed. Healthy adult dogs are rarely infested but neglected dogs often are. I’d bet that if I got a good look at the “giant nits” I could pin them down as dog lice. Or maybe cattle lice. There are lots of kinds of lice. Some of them are quite a bit larger than any of the three common kinds of human lice.
I could go on, but why bother. I’m convinced that the Carter farm thing is a hoax.
Kittenz,
Thank you! I have been trying to say that for a week now! I have been told to not think or speak of Coy and Green, and been called a ‘liar’. Yet the I am only stating what the woman has on her site. I will agree that I have said I think it is a hoax, and or that Janice Coy is the hoaxer. I still can not fathom that they allowed Janice to take the film into town alone!
As I said I thought it was mostly Coy, and that Green was just gullible. However after seeing these abusive Emails to Loren, and the defensive posture, I have to wonder if Green was not part of the ’show’ as well.
Also does anoyone else find it a bit odd that less then one year after reported first contact, they were in print and published?
I definitely need to avoid that kind of “nuts” there must be more together bigfoot investigators out there to back with dollars and time! Sheesh.
Well, all I can say is that my experiences here on Cryptomundo have been very positive. I’ve had my arguments with posters here- Shumway and I have gotten into some heated discussions over evolution and science (He not being a particular fan of either), and another person (Can’t remember his name) about flying humanoids, but everyone’s always remained civil and polite. if the discussions ever turned heated, the “hot” party has always cooled down and/or apologized.
As for censoring, it’s only ever happened once to me, and that’s because my post included the address of the notorious Yarwen-seller…perfectly understandable to me…
Read the book, hated the book, threw it away. She doesn’t have anything going for her, really.
This is “Comment” number 49.
In all the comments and opinions listed up to this high number of my #49, not one word was mentioned of the Preface in Green’s book, written by Dmitri Bayanov. He states, and I quote:
“I am in position to judge the accounts of Mary Green and Janice Coy.
I see them as truthful and in some aspects unprecedented.” Unquote.
Dmitri Bayanov
Darwin Museum, Moscow, Russia
Is there anyone on this list that can qualify with Mr. Bayanov’s credentials?
His years of research around the world, his insight, his decades of knowledge and experience?
And yet, we have a couple of women over in Tennessee (of limited education, which is stated) that may have innocently happened upon something bigger than their capacity to handle.
Women can be fragile (in most cases) and rattled to a panic state of hysteria and their only defense against us big macho “BigFoot” men is to fight, bite and scratch back. Target: Loren.
I’m not taking sides here… just stating my humble opinion. WDT
We all are “in a position” to “judge” the accounts of Green-Coy-Carter, and a few people are closer than Bayanov in Eurasia to make such insights after they have visited the “farm.” That’s what the original posting was all about: a link to comments from some people that have been there, not by someone from far away that merely has “credentials.”
I appreciate Doug’s opinion, after all, whether he has a Ph. D. or not, but what we need is “informed” opinions on the Tennessee fiasco, based on the examination and investigation of the evidence, in situ.
My opinion, if I am sitting in my car in Moscow, Maine, is no better than someone’s in Moscow, Russia. Nope, send me the facts from both sides from people that have been there, please.
Doug,
I have no idea about the mans creds, however I can tell you that on at least two BF forums he has been questioned about them. As of today I have seen no reply as to what university/school he went to.
I also must say that I find it rather comical that a man that has never actually met either woman can attest to their honesty/integrity. Albeit though that I am willing to call them hoaxers/fakes. So maybe I am being a bit too cynical.
well, I might as well throw something in too! Mary Green and I communicated through emails for a year or so, as I was so interested in what she had to say (when I first met her). It didn’t take too long before she kind of went “a little wacko” on me too. She blamed it on her health. She would tell me how she and a couple of her close friends (don’t remember names) would go to a couple of certain secluded areas not far from her home and spend hours before dark leaving bags of hard candy (skittles, m&m’s, and wrapped candy) for her clan of hominids. Most nights they claimed to have actually seen one or two creatures come out and sit down and eat these candies right in front of them. It kind of reminded me of “E.T.” at times, but I didn’t know then what I know now. It was like when I asked too many questions, Mary would “back away”, and eventually just quit writing me. She seemed a little psychotic at times, but most of us have some problems. Whether some of her website is true, only God knows for sure (and Mary). It is only a shame that when someone like her comes along and you find out later that it may be all a hoax, then what is to say that everything else is too? It sort of made me lose some interest in this phenomenon. We all love excitement and a good mystery, and we sure hate to see it all come to an end. Oh well, who’s next?
I would rather know the truth, even if the truth disproves a cherished theory.
You’re right, arbigfoothunter, we all love excitement and a good mystery. That’s why the Maine Mutant dog became such a media phenomenon. Remember one of the women in Maine who found it said something like they “hoped it would turn out to be something special.”? They did sincerely hope that they had found something out of the ordinary, and they were probably very disappointed when it turned out to be a stray dog.
But something like this, where people bend over backwards to try to use anything to support their fabrications about Bigfoot, is an insult to those people who really are dedicated to trying to prove the creatures existence and so, preserve it.
Long time reader, first time poster.
I’ve been reading over this site for quite some time now, and as compared to other sites, I noticed rather quickly that everyone here is intelligent, generally well spoken, and very civil about everything they have to say, even if they disagree.
I can’t, however, blame anyone for feeling the way that they do about this “Mary Green” situation. It’s.. silly, is really the only word I can think to use. Since I first got interested in Cryptozoology, I’ve been sorting through absolutely endless amounts of information, on every kind of Cryptid I can find, and though I can’t say I’ve read the book (I don’t have the cash to go out and buy something barely worth my time, for sure), from everything I’ve heard thus far, this woman is giving those who have a genuine interest, a genuine contribution to the “Bigfoot” world, a seriously bad name.
And it might not have even been -so- bad, if she hadn’t posted threatening E-mails, and basically had a tantrum over the posting of a picture, I don’t think. Bad, but.. not to this level. She doesn’t need anyone’s help in being proven a fraud, a liar, and a cheat, she’s wearing a great big sign around her neck.
At any rate, Loren, I have to commend you greatly on the way you handled the situation, I’ve had to deal with people like that before, and it’s definitely not easy to keep your cool, even when you know you haven’t done anything wrong.
Thank you. – Devlin
Silly may be a bit of an understatement. I’ve seen some truly odd things, including what I am convinced may be a member of the species currently known as Champ in the Hudson River, I’ve seen and heard an incredibly large quadruped outside my house, and even seen a 1-1/2 inch aquatic larvae that currently goes under the moniker of Devil Worm, and so have a fair bit of experience w/ CZ, and present that, along w/ my expansive knowledge of idiots, prehistory, and natural history as my “credentials” in this situation, and can calmly state that this entire incident should join TB in that well-known branch of true pseudoscience known as “Hoaxology 101.”
To Mr. Tarrant,
With all due respect to Mr. Bayonov, in reading his book, ‘In The Footsteps Of The Russian Snowman”, I find him to be a bit of a romantic and too inclined to believe most of the stories he hears, especially from poor, rural folk he believes are incapable of lying. His credentials might not mean much if he’s lost his objectivity.