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	<title>Comments on: Nature Will Find A Way</title>
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	<description>for Bigfoot, Loch Ness, and More</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 04:36:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: kittenz</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/giantsnakes-fl/#comment-12373</link>
		<dc:creator>kittenz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 02:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think that the python did not swallow 11 dogs at the same time, but one dog at a time over an extended period. In fact the original article alludes to that.

Most native dog breeds and mixed breeds in tropical areas are small-to-medium sized dogs, well within the size range of a large python's prey. I think that the people probably tied a dog out, then it disappeared so they tied another dog out, and so on until 11 dogs had been eaten and they finally caught the python.

A big snake would have no trouble overpowering and eating a medium sized dog, but unless the snake caught the dog unawares, or the dog was fastened in some way that it could not run away, a dog could easily outrun a big snake.

Big snakes rarely eat multiple prey items unless they are being fed by humans. An exception can be where there are several helpless prey animals such as young in a burrow. The way that a snake eats is: they strike and bite a prey animal, coil it, examine it, find the head, and then swallow the animal head first. It takes considerable time. So unless the 11 dogs were all tied so that they could not escape, the rest would run away while the snake was eating the first one. Snakes also tend to stop eating once they are full. I think that even if there were 11 dogs that could not get away, the snake would probably stop after 4 or 5 at the most.

I had an 11 foot Burmese python who loved to eat. The most she ever ate at one feeding was 6 large rats. Usually she would stop at 2 or 3, and even if more rats - live or dead - were in her habitat, she would ignore the rest. Sometimes she would even act aggravated and bump extra animals out of the way with a her body after she was full, or else she would just go to the other side of her cage and stay there until the extra animals had been removed.

The snake in the photo that accompanied this article was not nearly distended enough to have just swallowed 11 dogs of any size. She did look like she had recently swallowed one, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that the python did not swallow 11 dogs at the same time, but one dog at a time over an extended period. In fact the original article alludes to that.</p>
<p>Most native dog breeds and mixed breeds in tropical areas are small-to-medium sized dogs, well within the size range of a large python&#8217;s prey. I think that the people probably tied a dog out, then it disappeared so they tied another dog out, and so on until 11 dogs had been eaten and they finally caught the python.</p>
<p>A big snake would have no trouble overpowering and eating a medium sized dog, but unless the snake caught the dog unawares, or the dog was fastened in some way that it could not run away, a dog could easily outrun a big snake.</p>
<p>Big snakes rarely eat multiple prey items unless they are being fed by humans. An exception can be where there are several helpless prey animals such as young in a burrow. The way that a snake eats is: they strike and bite a prey animal, coil it, examine it, find the head, and then swallow the animal head first. It takes considerable time. So unless the 11 dogs were all tied so that they could not escape, the rest would run away while the snake was eating the first one. Snakes also tend to stop eating once they are full. I think that even if there were 11 dogs that could not get away, the snake would probably stop after 4 or 5 at the most.</p>
<p>I had an 11 foot Burmese python who loved to eat. The most she ever ate at one feeding was 6 large rats. Usually she would stop at 2 or 3, and even if more rats - live or dead - were in her habitat, she would ignore the rest. Sometimes she would even act aggravated and bump extra animals out of the way with a her body after she was full, or else she would just go to the other side of her cage and stay there until the extra animals had been removed.</p>
<p>The snake in the photo that accompanied this article was not nearly distended enough to have just swallowed 11 dogs of any size. She did look like she had recently swallowed one, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Mnynames</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/giantsnakes-fl/#comment-12372</link>
		<dc:creator>Mnynames</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jan 2007 01:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Glad they didn't kill it.  Any snake that can swallow 11 guard dogs has my respect!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad they didn&#8217;t kill it.  Any snake that can swallow 11 guard dogs has my respect!</p>
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		<title>By: GLS</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/giantsnakes-fl/#comment-12371</link>
		<dc:creator>GLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/nature-will-find-a-way/#comment-12371</guid>
		<description>FYI...
Not sure if you saw this report or not but it is interesting to say the least when compared to the above article and swamp conditions.

Best regard and good researching!
GLS

&lt;em&gt; Huge python makes a meal of 11 Malaysian guard dogs
Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:39 AM GMT18
&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;KUALA LUMPUR (Reuters) - Guard dogs protecting a fruit orchard in Malaysia have met their match -- a 7.1-metre-long (23-ft-long) python that swallowed at least 11 hounds before it was finally discovered by villagers.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;"I was shocked to see such a huge python," orchard-keeper Ali Yusof told the New Straits Times in an article published beneath a picture of the captured snake, which was almost long enough to span the width of a tennis court and as thick as a tree trunk.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Villagers did not harm the snake, which was tied to a tree then handed to wildlife officials, the paper said on Friday.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI&#8230;<br />
Not sure if you saw this report or not but it is interesting to say the least when compared to the above article and swamp conditions.</p>
<p>Best regard and good researching!<br />
GLS</p>
<p><em> Huge python makes a meal of 11 Malaysian guard dogs<br />
Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:39 AM GMT18<br />
</em></p>
<p><em>KUALA LUMPUR (Reuters) - Guard dogs protecting a fruit orchard in Malaysia have met their match &#8212; a 7.1-metre-long (23-ft-long) python that swallowed at least 11 hounds before it was finally discovered by villagers.</em></p>
<p><em>&#8220;I was shocked to see such a huge python,&#8221; orchard-keeper Ali Yusof told the New Straits Times in an article published beneath a picture of the captured snake, which was almost long enough to span the width of a tennis court and as thick as a tree trunk.</em></p>
<p><em>Villagers did not harm the snake, which was tied to a tree then handed to wildlife officials, the paper said on Friday.</em></p>
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		<title>By: mystery_man</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/giantsnakes-fl/#comment-12370</link>
		<dc:creator>mystery_man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/nature-will-find-a-way/#comment-12370</guid>
		<description>Great example, Mnynames! That is exactly what I am talking about. We can not always forsee the imact that any introduced species is going to have, and they can often have effects that are totally unpredictable. I was just reading an article on the zebra mussel in the Great lakes actually causing bacterial blooms that are deteriorating the quality of human drinking water.  The effects can be far reaching. In the case of the Christmas island crabs, you can see how delicately balanced an ecosystem can be, all species working together like cogs in a machine. When you take away one species, no matter how tiny or seemingly insignificant, you get a butterfly effect that ends up reaching throughout the ecosystem. This may happen through introduced species or human activities, but the end result is the same.  Often, there is no way of knowing how integral a species was or what kind of impact its loss will have until years down the line. The loss of any given species in any given biological niche is going to have potentially far reaching effects and I think it is only a matter of time before effects caused by the loss of the species Mnynames mentioned make themselves known. In the end, when you throw in any new, foreign species, you are throwing a wild card into a calibrated system. Sometimes it will be a dud or even beneficial, but other times you can have a ticking ecological time bomb. I know my tone is a bit ominous but I have studied too many cases of this nature to take these kinds of things lightly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great example, Mnynames! That is exactly what I am talking about. We can not always forsee the imact that any introduced species is going to have, and they can often have effects that are totally unpredictable. I was just reading an article on the zebra mussel in the Great lakes actually causing bacterial blooms that are deteriorating the quality of human drinking water.  The effects can be far reaching. In the case of the Christmas island crabs, you can see how delicately balanced an ecosystem can be, all species working together like cogs in a machine. When you take away one species, no matter how tiny or seemingly insignificant, you get a butterfly effect that ends up reaching throughout the ecosystem. This may happen through introduced species or human activities, but the end result is the same.  Often, there is no way of knowing how integral a species was or what kind of impact its loss will have until years down the line. The loss of any given species in any given biological niche is going to have potentially far reaching effects and I think it is only a matter of time before effects caused by the loss of the species Mnynames mentioned make themselves known. In the end, when you throw in any new, foreign species, you are throwing a wild card into a calibrated system. Sometimes it will be a dud or even beneficial, but other times you can have a ticking ecological time bomb. I know my tone is a bit ominous but I have studied too many cases of this nature to take these kinds of things lightly.</p>
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		<title>By: Mnynames</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/giantsnakes-fl/#comment-12369</link>
		<dc:creator>Mnynames</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 05:14:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/nature-will-find-a-way/#comment-12369</guid>
		<description>That would be neutering SNAKES, not myself there....Just wanted to clear that up before the snickering got too out of control.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That would be neutering SNAKES, not myself there&#8230;.Just wanted to clear that up before the snickering got too out of control.</p>
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		<title>By: Mnynames</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/giantsnakes-fl/#comment-12368</link>
		<dc:creator>Mnynames</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 05:12:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/nature-will-find-a-way/#comment-12368</guid>
		<description>Kittenz- I was going to mention the question of neutering myself.  I didn't think you could either, but didn't know enough about it to really say.

Since we're sort of on the topic of nature working in odd ways, I thought I'd mention that it may not work in certain ways we think it does (Bear with me, as this does involve introduced species).

Take for example Christmas Island, I believe it is, and the annual migration of the millions of bright red forest crabs to the sea.  This event has become famous, and greatly lauded worldwide, but it is likely the sign of a major ecological instability.  No mention was made of this mass migration, which forces modern roads and businesses to close, by the original settlers of the island.  They did, however, mention a native species of rat, and also noted how quickly it was replaced by Norwegian Rats introduced from their ships, until before too long, it was extinct.  Some scientists now suspect that the native rats actively fed on or competed with the forest crabs, keeping their population in check.  With them gone forever, it was maybe 50-100 years before the emergence of this otherwise spectacular "natural" display of huge numbers of crabs.  Except it's actually "unnatural."

How many times has this happened and we haven't noticed?  Here in New Jersey, ecologists think they have a pretty good idea of how things work in the Pinelands, but can they really know, when so many species are missing?  How could the presence of Buffalo (Yes, we had them), Wolves, Cougars (I've mentioned before that we still have them, even if officially we don't, but you better believe the numbers are down, just as they are for Bears), Sea Mink, Passenger Pigeons, Carolina Parakeets, Heath Hens, Labrador Ducks, and large numbers of Hemlock Trees (All but wiped out in a blight) not have been significantly different?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kittenz- I was going to mention the question of neutering myself.  I didn&#8217;t think you could either, but didn&#8217;t know enough about it to really say.</p>
<p>Since we&#8217;re sort of on the topic of nature working in odd ways, I thought I&#8217;d mention that it may not work in certain ways we think it does (Bear with me, as this does involve introduced species).</p>
<p>Take for example Christmas Island, I believe it is, and the annual migration of the millions of bright red forest crabs to the sea.  This event has become famous, and greatly lauded worldwide, but it is likely the sign of a major ecological instability.  No mention was made of this mass migration, which forces modern roads and businesses to close, by the original settlers of the island.  They did, however, mention a native species of rat, and also noted how quickly it was replaced by Norwegian Rats introduced from their ships, until before too long, it was extinct.  Some scientists now suspect that the native rats actively fed on or competed with the forest crabs, keeping their population in check.  With them gone forever, it was maybe 50-100 years before the emergence of this otherwise spectacular &#8220;natural&#8221; display of huge numbers of crabs.  Except it&#8217;s actually &#8220;unnatural.&#8221;</p>
<p>How many times has this happened and we haven&#8217;t noticed?  Here in New Jersey, ecologists think they have a pretty good idea of how things work in the Pinelands, but can they really know, when so many species are missing?  How could the presence of Buffalo (Yes, we had them), Wolves, Cougars (I&#8217;ve mentioned before that we still have them, even if officially we don&#8217;t, but you better believe the numbers are down, just as they are for Bears), Sea Mink, Passenger Pigeons, Carolina Parakeets, Heath Hens, Labrador Ducks, and large numbers of Hemlock Trees (All but wiped out in a blight) not have been significantly different?</p>
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		<title>By: kittenz</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/giantsnakes-fl/#comment-12367</link>
		<dc:creator>kittenz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/nature-will-find-a-way/#comment-12367</guid>
		<description>I don't currently have any pet snakes, but I kept pythons and boas for years. To the best of my knowledge, and I do try to stay current, you cannot just neuter a snake the way you can a mammal.

These populations of introduced snakes did not, as a rule, originate from animals that escaped captivity, but rather from animals deliberately released by irresponsible people who no longer wanted them.

Responsible owners of pet nonpoisonous snakes are not the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t currently have any pet snakes, but I kept pythons and boas for years. To the best of my knowledge, and I do try to stay current, you cannot just neuter a snake the way you can a mammal.</p>
<p>These populations of introduced snakes did not, as a rule, originate from animals that escaped captivity, but rather from animals deliberately released by irresponsible people who no longer wanted them.</p>
<p>Responsible owners of pet nonpoisonous snakes are not the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: mystery_man</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/giantsnakes-fl/#comment-12366</link>
		<dc:creator>mystery_man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jan 2007 15:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Good observations, Mnynames. I did not mean to totally condemn introduced species as an inexorable casue of destruction. But as you said, it is hard to see what the effect will be until there has been time to see the effect of any given species. Sometimes, the negative impact is not seen until it is too late. this is especially tragic with species that have been purposefully introduced for a specific cause, such as the mongoose in Okinawa that I mentioned before. Nature works in mysterious ways, and in a perfect world, we would have those Japanese shore crabs and parakeet situations all of the time. It is just not possible to adequately predict how a particular species is going to interact in a new, foreign ecosystem. Sure we can make educated guesses, but in the end nature is going to be slightly unpredictable. I just feel that it is best to be wary, to keep an eye on the situation, to put regulations into effect. I agree that we have to maintain a state of vigilance with these introduced species no matter how benign or even beneficial they may seem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good observations, Mnynames. I did not mean to totally condemn introduced species as an inexorable casue of destruction. But as you said, it is hard to see what the effect will be until there has been time to see the effect of any given species. Sometimes, the negative impact is not seen until it is too late. this is especially tragic with species that have been purposefully introduced for a specific cause, such as the mongoose in Okinawa that I mentioned before. Nature works in mysterious ways, and in a perfect world, we would have those Japanese shore crabs and parakeet situations all of the time. It is just not possible to adequately predict how a particular species is going to interact in a new, foreign ecosystem. Sure we can make educated guesses, but in the end nature is going to be slightly unpredictable. I just feel that it is best to be wary, to keep an eye on the situation, to put regulations into effect. I agree that we have to maintain a state of vigilance with these introduced species no matter how benign or even beneficial they may seem.</p>
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		<title>By: Mnynames</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/giantsnakes-fl/#comment-12365</link>
		<dc:creator>Mnynames</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>A thought I have long had is that if mankind survives long enough to get a handle on all the mass extinctions we've caused, we may want to try to repair some of that damage.  Without the extinct animals available to us any longer, we would have to find their equivalents and introduce them, if we had any hopes of reconstructing damaged ecosystems.  If we pay attention to what is going on now, what works and what doesn't, what survives and what doesn't, the irony is that we may then have the knowledge to undo some of the very destruction we are now wreaking.

Small consolation, I know, and it won't bring back anything we've lost, or are about to lose, nor would any of those reconstructed ecosystems ever be what they were, but, well...they would work again, and that would be something, at least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A thought I have long had is that if mankind survives long enough to get a handle on all the mass extinctions we&#8217;ve caused, we may want to try to repair some of that damage.  Without the extinct animals available to us any longer, we would have to find their equivalents and introduce them, if we had any hopes of reconstructing damaged ecosystems.  If we pay attention to what is going on now, what works and what doesn&#8217;t, what survives and what doesn&#8217;t, the irony is that we may then have the knowledge to undo some of the very destruction we are now wreaking.</p>
<p>Small consolation, I know, and it won&#8217;t bring back anything we&#8217;ve lost, or are about to lose, nor would any of those reconstructed ecosystems ever be what they were, but, well&#8230;they would work again, and that would be something, at least.</p>
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		<title>By: Mnynames</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/giantsnakes-fl/#comment-12364</link>
		<dc:creator>Mnynames</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2007 17:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/nature-will-find-a-way/#comment-12364</guid>
		<description>Introduced species are not, as a rule, harmful.  For years now, scientists have been ringing the warning bells (And rightly so) because a few of them have proved quite devastating, with the unintended effect that most consider ALL introduced species a danger.  Potentially, they are, and I don't dispute that.  But there is a great deal of evidence that many fill niches that simply haven't existed in those ecosystems, or may replace niches lost to extinction or decimation.

Here in New Jersey, we've had our share of devastating aliens (Grover's Mill aside), particularly the Gypsy Moth.  With nothing to prey on them, they have chewed up entire forests, reproducing ever more as they go.  But we also have the Japanese Shore Crab, which seems to favour rocky areas spurned by native crustaceans, and are actually considered the best bait for catching Tautog and Black Sea Bass, indicating that they are surely eating.  They have found a niche unexploited by native life and moved in.  Net gain for the ecosystem, if you ask me (And they are beautiful crabs, if you ask me.  I keep one in my saltwater tank at home).  We also have emerging flocks of escaped Parakeets (various species, obviously), although they are more common in New York, I'm told.  They seem capable of surviving the winters here, and likely are beginning to occupy the niche abandoned by the now extinct Carolina Parakeet, which once lived here in great numbers.

We know this now, but certainly could not have when the parakeets or shore crabs first arrived, which means that diligence and vigilance are key here.  For all we knew, the Japanese Shore Crab could have been the next Snakehead fish or Zebra Mussel.  As soon as new species are found they should be monitored, and action taken at the earliest sign of ecological disruption.

Florida represents the extreme case here.  As #1 port of entry for exotic animals, legal or otherwise, it faces the potential for severe disruption.  So far, that does not seem to be the case, but eventually something unstoppable is going to come through- Fire Ants, Snakeheads, Southeast Asian Swamp Eels (Actually, they did come through, but seem to have been caught in time).  The animals capable of surviving and thriving in new environments, by their very nature, seem to be extremophiles, which is why they can outcompete everything else when conditions are bad.  I would recommend restricting importation of such animals, and for those animals at least, have wildlife officials remove them whenever and wherever they are found.

This modern introduction of animals to new environments is unprecedented in its enormity in the whole of Earth's history.  Just by driving a boat from one continent to another, we have irrevokably altered the course of future evolution on this planet.  Talk about a butterfly effect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Introduced species are not, as a rule, harmful.  For years now, scientists have been ringing the warning bells (And rightly so) because a few of them have proved quite devastating, with the unintended effect that most consider ALL introduced species a danger.  Potentially, they are, and I don&#8217;t dispute that.  But there is a great deal of evidence that many fill niches that simply haven&#8217;t existed in those ecosystems, or may replace niches lost to extinction or decimation.</p>
<p>Here in New Jersey, we&#8217;ve had our share of devastating aliens (Grover&#8217;s Mill aside), particularly the Gypsy Moth.  With nothing to prey on them, they have chewed up entire forests, reproducing ever more as they go.  But we also have the Japanese Shore Crab, which seems to favour rocky areas spurned by native crustaceans, and are actually considered the best bait for catching Tautog and Black Sea Bass, indicating that they are surely eating.  They have found a niche unexploited by native life and moved in.  Net gain for the ecosystem, if you ask me (And they are beautiful crabs, if you ask me.  I keep one in my saltwater tank at home).  We also have emerging flocks of escaped Parakeets (various species, obviously), although they are more common in New York, I&#8217;m told.  They seem capable of surviving the winters here, and likely are beginning to occupy the niche abandoned by the now extinct Carolina Parakeet, which once lived here in great numbers.</p>
<p>We know this now, but certainly could not have when the parakeets or shore crabs first arrived, which means that diligence and vigilance are key here.  For all we knew, the Japanese Shore Crab could have been the next Snakehead fish or Zebra Mussel.  As soon as new species are found they should be monitored, and action taken at the earliest sign of ecological disruption.</p>
<p>Florida represents the extreme case here.  As #1 port of entry for exotic animals, legal or otherwise, it faces the potential for severe disruption.  So far, that does not seem to be the case, but eventually something unstoppable is going to come through- Fire Ants, Snakeheads, Southeast Asian Swamp Eels (Actually, they did come through, but seem to have been caught in time).  The animals capable of surviving and thriving in new environments, by their very nature, seem to be extremophiles, which is why they can outcompete everything else when conditions are bad.  I would recommend restricting importation of such animals, and for those animals at least, have wildlife officials remove them whenever and wherever they are found.</p>
<p>This modern introduction of animals to new environments is unprecedented in its enormity in the whole of Earth&#8217;s history.  Just by driving a boat from one continent to another, we have irrevokably altered the course of future evolution on this planet.  Talk about a butterfly effect.</p>
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