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	<title>Comments on: An Electrogenic Mammal?</title>
	<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/electromammal/</link>
	<description>for Bigfoot, Loch Ness, and More</description>
	<pubDate>Fri,  4 Jul 2008 22:05:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: qlue</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/electromammal/#comment-43267</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:18:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/electromammal/#comment-43267</guid>
					<description>Is it possible that this mammal can only deliver a current when wet? That might explain why no one has been shocked by an animal in captivity!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it possible that this mammal can only deliver a current when wet? That might explain why no one has been shocked by an animal in captivity!
</p>
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		<title>by: Mnynames</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/electromammal/#comment-34672</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 19:22:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/electromammal/#comment-34672</guid>
					<description>Just curious here, but what, exactly, would an electrogenic organ look like?  It was always my understanding that the electric eels generated the charge from pits in their skin...of course now that I think about it, those may instead be for detecting electrical signals.

Also, the Stargazer species along the Atlantic Coast generate a shock from their heads, not just the ones from Australia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just curious here, but what, exactly, would an electrogenic organ look like?  It was always my understanding that the electric eels generated the charge from pits in their skin&#8230;of course now that I think about it, those may instead be for detecting electrical signals.</p>
<p>Also, the Stargazer species along the Atlantic Coast generate a shock from their heads, not just the ones from Australia.
</p>
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		<title>by: skeptical_observer</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/electromammal/#comment-34595</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 18:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/electromammal/#comment-34595</guid>
					<description>I am the source of this story for Loren and I thought I would respond to some of the comments and questions. Many of the comments are very astute.  Let me first of all say that I myself remain skeptical about these stories.  It is possible, as mystery man suggests, that this is folklore that has grown out of confusing a shock delivered from an electric catfish with the presence of a trapped P. velox, both of which must occasionally be caught together in fishermen's nets.  It is the fact that I have heard this story three times at three different localities in Central Africa and each time the information was unsolicited from me (they weren't trying to please me by  telling me something I wanted to hear) that makes me consider the possibility that there could be something to it.

As MatteBille points out, it does seem unlikely that a biologist at some time has not handled a P. velox and experienced a shock if it is indeed capable of delivering one and that no one has ever observed what must be a large electric organ upon dissection.  I am trying to locate mammalogists who have worked on tenrecs in Africa to ask them these very questions.  It is possible that no one has ever had observed a live P. velox in captivity and also possible that no one has looked for an electric organ upon skinning one.  IMO, the only place for an electric organ in P. velox would be in its muscular tail. Examination of the tail musculature in a dead P. velox would surely reveal unusual anatomy if it contained an electric organ, but it is not inconceivable that it could have escaped the notice of those who have prepared museum skins.

As I say, I will report back when I learn more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am the source of this story for Loren and I thought I would respond to some of the comments and questions. Many of the comments are very astute.  Let me first of all say that I myself remain skeptical about these stories.  It is possible, as mystery man suggests, that this is folklore that has grown out of confusing a shock delivered from an electric catfish with the presence of a trapped P. velox, both of which must occasionally be caught together in fishermen&#8217;s nets.  It is the fact that I have heard this story three times at three different localities in Central Africa and each time the information was unsolicited from me (they weren&#8217;t trying to please me by  telling me something I wanted to hear) that makes me consider the possibility that there could be something to it.</p>
<p>As MatteBille points out, it does seem unlikely that a biologist at some time has not handled a P. velox and experienced a shock if it is indeed capable of delivering one and that no one has ever observed what must be a large electric organ upon dissection.  I am trying to locate mammalogists who have worked on tenrecs in Africa to ask them these very questions.  It is possible that no one has ever had observed a live P. velox in captivity and also possible that no one has looked for an electric organ upon skinning one.  IMO, the only place for an electric organ in P. velox would be in its muscular tail. Examination of the tail musculature in a dead P. velox would surely reveal unusual anatomy if it contained an electric organ, but it is not inconceivable that it could have escaped the notice of those who have prepared museum skins.</p>
<p>As I say, I will report back when I learn more.
</p>
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		<title>by: mystery_man</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/electromammal/#comment-34589</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 16:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/electromammal/#comment-34589</guid>
					<description>I see, Loren. I put quotes around the word in a similar manner to the one who reported this when using "shrew" to denote that I knew it was not in fact a shrew. I should have just said tenrec to avoid confusion. 

What you said about an unknown animal's attributes being made somewhat larger than life is exactly what I was getting at when speculating about whether this was perhaps an electric catfish shock mistakenly attributed to a known or unknown mammal. The source says the delineation is clear between the behavior of the two, but if there is the understanding that attributes can be over exaggerated, then I wonder if an electric catfish shock might not have been overblown as well. If this were the case, with the shock exaggerated and attributed to another animal, then it seems to me that the behavior of this proposed electrogenic mammal would be the result of making the mundane more fantastic than it perhaps really is. 

Then again, I suppose it is stretching a bit for me to think that experienced fishermen could make a mistake like that with animals they are no doubt familiar with. Ah well, I just like speculating on these things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see, Loren. I put quotes around the word in a similar manner to the one who reported this when using &#8220;shrew&#8221; to denote that I knew it was not in fact a shrew. I should have just said tenrec to avoid confusion. </p>
<p>What you said about an unknown animal&#8217;s attributes being made somewhat larger than life is exactly what I was getting at when speculating about whether this was perhaps an electric catfish shock mistakenly attributed to a known or unknown mammal. The source says the delineation is clear between the behavior of the two, but if there is the understanding that attributes can be over exaggerated, then I wonder if an electric catfish shock might not have been overblown as well. If this were the case, with the shock exaggerated and attributed to another animal, then it seems to me that the behavior of this proposed electrogenic mammal would be the result of making the mundane more fantastic than it perhaps really is. </p>
<p>Then again, I suppose it is stretching a bit for me to think that experienced fishermen could make a mistake like that with animals they are no doubt familiar with. Ah well, I just like speculating on these things.
</p>
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		<title>by: Loren Coleman</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/electromammal/#comment-34585</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 15:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/electromammal/#comment-34585</guid>
					<description>As noted, it is not a shrew but a tenrec.

Also, as mentioned, it is assumed the locals are talking about a known animal with a electrogenic organ used to kill fish to eat them.  But by technical definition, this animal would be a cryptid, an unknown animal, until it is identified positively.

Furthermore, in the beginning of any cryptozoological investigation, the usual understanding is that the "new animal" will be made fantastic or at least it's behavior, size, and attributes might be made to be larger than life.

BTW, my informant reports there was a very clear division between the electrogenic behavior of this cryptid mammal and that said to be caused by the local electric catfish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As noted, it is not a shrew but a tenrec.</p>
<p>Also, as mentioned, it is assumed the locals are talking about a known animal with a electrogenic organ used to kill fish to eat them.  But by technical definition, this animal would be a cryptid, an unknown animal, until it is identified positively.</p>
<p>Furthermore, in the beginning of any cryptozoological investigation, the usual understanding is that the &#8220;new animal&#8221; will be made fantastic or at least it&#8217;s behavior, size, and attributes might be made to be larger than life.</p>
<p>BTW, my informant reports there was a very clear division between the electrogenic behavior of this cryptid mammal and that said to be caused by the local electric catfish.
</p>
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		<title>by: mystery_man</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/electromammal/#comment-34584</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 14:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/electromammal/#comment-34584</guid>
					<description>Interesting story. I am not so familiar with this species of shrew, so I don't know how often it is actually encountered by humans, but if it is encountered often, I would think it would be more common to hear of its electrogenic properties. It would be helpful to know exactly how often these types of reports of a mammal shocking people is above and beyond the smattering of stories this zoologist personally heard about. I'd also like to have more credible evidence that the assumption he made that it "must" be the giant otter "shrew" is correct. Did he show any of the specimens he had to the natives to verify if in fact this was the animal they mentioned? Perhaps it is an unknown animal and this person just made the conclusion that Potamogale velox must be what they are talking about without any corroboration, in which case building a case on this species being electrogenic is arbitrary and speculative. 

I won't discount the possibility of an electrogenic mammal, but I'm trying to look at other possible explanations first here before jumping to a completely unknown type of mammal. I wonder if there is a possibility that this animal they speak of is also a piscivore and preys on the same species as other electrogenic fish in the area, in which case there would be a chance that fisherman would capture them together. This seems reasonably possible since the reports that were given involved fishermen who caught them in their nets. If this were true and the mammal in question was captured with an electrogenic species, then perhaps it was in fact the fish that shocked the fishermen and somehow the "shrew" was mistakenly blamed as the culprit. Word of mouth and tall tales could easily exaggerate the level of electric shock given and before you know it, there is an alleged electrogenic mammal running around. I'm not saying this is the case, but it is as good a possibility as any given the facts we have to go on. 

I definitely would be excited by a find of this type, though, and hopefully there will be a specimen to examine that will shed light on the phenomena.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting story. I am not so familiar with this species of shrew, so I don&#8217;t know how often it is actually encountered by humans, but if it is encountered often, I would think it would be more common to hear of its electrogenic properties. It would be helpful to know exactly how often these types of reports of a mammal shocking people is above and beyond the smattering of stories this zoologist personally heard about. I&#8217;d also like to have more credible evidence that the assumption he made that it &#8220;must&#8221; be the giant otter &#8220;shrew&#8221; is correct. Did he show any of the specimens he had to the natives to verify if in fact this was the animal they mentioned? Perhaps it is an unknown animal and this person just made the conclusion that Potamogale velox must be what they are talking about without any corroboration, in which case building a case on this species being electrogenic is arbitrary and speculative. </p>
<p>I won&#8217;t discount the possibility of an electrogenic mammal, but I&#8217;m trying to look at other possible explanations first here before jumping to a completely unknown type of mammal. I wonder if there is a possibility that this animal they speak of is also a piscivore and preys on the same species as other electrogenic fish in the area, in which case there would be a chance that fisherman would capture them together. This seems reasonably possible since the reports that were given involved fishermen who caught them in their nets. If this were true and the mammal in question was captured with an electrogenic species, then perhaps it was in fact the fish that shocked the fishermen and somehow the &#8220;shrew&#8221; was mistakenly blamed as the culprit. Word of mouth and tall tales could easily exaggerate the level of electric shock given and before you know it, there is an alleged electrogenic mammal running around. I&#8217;m not saying this is the case, but it is as good a possibility as any given the facts we have to go on. </p>
<p>I definitely would be excited by a find of this type, though, and hopefully there will be a specimen to examine that will shed light on the phenomena.
</p>
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		<title>by: youcantryreachingme</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/electromammal/#comment-34578</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 11:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/electromammal/#comment-34578</guid>
					<description>Matt - it might be possible to have a holotype in a collection and not realise that a species is electrogenic. For example, if only one sex were collected, and it is the other which has the electric organ. If I recall correctly, this may have been the case for an alleged light-producing lizard - we don't know as we have not yet collected both sexes.

Case in point - the platypus - only the males have the spurs.

Darkshines - as Ceroill says - platypuses are mammals (as you say, that lay eggs). Other mammals include the marsupials which give birth to bean-sized young that make their way to the marsupium (pouch) where they continue their development until independence (eg kangaroo), and those which give birth to fairly fully-formed young (eg humans).

Did you know that the South American knife and elephant fishes which produce electric pulses are used in water treatment plants? By measuring the electrical activity in the water generated by these fish, scientists can determine the amount of chemical pollutants present. They form a sort of last safety check before the water is declared safe. In the wild these fishes use their electrogenic ability for communication. Although Matt mentioned these are small fish, together they comprise over 300 species.

The Australian deep-sea stargazer is also an electrogenic fish producing about 20 volts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt - it might be possible to have a holotype in a collection and not realise that a species is electrogenic. For example, if only one sex were collected, and it is the other which has the electric organ. If I recall correctly, this may have been the case for an alleged light-producing lizard - we don&#8217;t know as we have not yet collected both sexes.</p>
<p>Case in point - the platypus - only the males have the spurs.</p>
<p>Darkshines - as Ceroill says - platypuses are mammals (as you say, that lay eggs). Other mammals include the marsupials which give birth to bean-sized young that make their way to the marsupium (pouch) where they continue their development until independence (eg kangaroo), and those which give birth to fairly fully-formed young (eg humans).</p>
<p>Did you know that the South American knife and elephant fishes which produce electric pulses are used in water treatment plants? By measuring the electrical activity in the water generated by these fish, scientists can determine the amount of chemical pollutants present. They form a sort of last safety check before the water is declared safe. In the wild these fishes use their electrogenic ability for communication. Although Matt mentioned these are small fish, together they comprise over 300 species.</p>
<p>The Australian deep-sea stargazer is also an electrogenic fish producing about 20 volts.
</p>
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		<title>by: Ceroill</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/electromammal/#comment-34566</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 21:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/electromammal/#comment-34566</guid>
					<description>Yes, the platypus is a mammal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, the platypus is a mammal.
</p>
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		<title>by: darkshines</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/electromammal/#comment-34565</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 20:42:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/electromammal/#comment-34565</guid>
					<description>Come to think about it, is a platypus even a mammal? It lays eggs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Come to think about it, is a platypus even a mammal? It lays eggs.
</p>
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		<title>by: DARHOP</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/electromammal/#comment-34561</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 18:07:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/electromammal/#comment-34561</guid>
					<description>But at some point realized it had to be Potamogale velox, the giant otter “shrew”.

I was gonna say it looks like an Otter Rat to me. Or a Rat Otter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But at some point realized it had to be Potamogale velox, the giant otter “shrew”.</p>
<p>I was gonna say it looks like an Otter Rat to me. Or a Rat Otter.
</p>
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