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	<title>Comments on: Eastern Cougar Mysteries</title>
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		<title>By: Chrysalis</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ec-catfights/comment-page-1/#comment-12693</link>
		<dc:creator>Chrysalis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 21:38:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ec-catfights/#comment-12693</guid>
		<description>I am a long-time EPRN researcher living in Massachusetts.  In my experience the so-called wildlife experts are not always as competent and knowledgeable as I am.  I have learned to document, photograph, and get witnesses for my investigations.  I have calmly got into heated discussions with people here who refuse to listen to other people, view evidence, and treat the mountain lion situation with any care at all. I believe that all sightings a few years ago in Rochester, MA were treated with contempt and then some wildlife officials &quot;removed&quot; the puma that created these sightings. I once stood with a so-called expert in MA wildlife and he could not tell the difference between a flock of double-crested cormorants and a flock of Canada geese flying overhead!  I found and documented a Blanding&#039;s turtle for the Mass Natural Heritage Program in a stream in southeastern MA.  I got 2 witnesses from MA Wildlife, private citizen, town officials and photographed the animal.  Afterwards I was accused of planting turtles and a professor, so-called wildlife expert, called me a liar in a college classroom to his students.  I just keep on doing the work and know it is more important than my ego or theirs.  I just know that those who go out of their way to debunk sincere and dedicated people who are experienced and knowledgeable are an impediment to getting the real answers to these mysteries.  I will be moving to Cooper, ME in Washington County in a few years and have already talked to people in the area who have had lynx and mountain lion sightings over the year in that area.  Most people just look and are disgusted by the backstabbing that can go on in their presence by investigators so they d o not report the sighting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a long-time EPRN researcher living in Massachusetts.  In my experience the so-called wildlife experts are not always as competent and knowledgeable as I am.  I have learned to document, photograph, and get witnesses for my investigations.  I have calmly got into heated discussions with people here who refuse to listen to other people, view evidence, and treat the mountain lion situation with any care at all. I believe that all sightings a few years ago in Rochester, MA were treated with contempt and then some wildlife officials &#8220;removed&#8221; the puma that created these sightings. I once stood with a so-called expert in MA wildlife and he could not tell the difference between a flock of double-crested cormorants and a flock of Canada geese flying overhead!  I found and documented a Blanding&#8217;s turtle for the Mass Natural Heritage Program in a stream in southeastern MA.  I got 2 witnesses from MA Wildlife, private citizen, town officials and photographed the animal.  Afterwards I was accused of planting turtles and a professor, so-called wildlife expert, called me a liar in a college classroom to his students.  I just keep on doing the work and know it is more important than my ego or theirs.  I just know that those who go out of their way to debunk sincere and dedicated people who are experienced and knowledgeable are an impediment to getting the real answers to these mysteries.  I will be moving to Cooper, ME in Washington County in a few years and have already talked to people in the area who have had lynx and mountain lion sightings over the year in that area.  Most people just look and are disgusted by the backstabbing that can go on in their presence by investigators so they d o not report the sighting.</p>
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		<title>By: mystery_man</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ec-catfights/comment-page-1/#comment-12692</link>
		<dc:creator>mystery_man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 14:54:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ec-catfights/#comment-12692</guid>
		<description>Good post, Todd. Now if we only had more people thinking like that in Bigfoot research!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post, Todd. Now if we only had more people thinking like that in Bigfoot research!</p>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ec-catfights/comment-page-1/#comment-12691</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Feb 2007 12:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ec-catfights/#comment-12691</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I seriously doubt that there&#039;s another person on this planet that wants to document evidence of the existence of cougars in the eastern U.S. more than I do.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And I will personally stand behind any evidence that will stand up to scientific scrutiny.  But when it doesn&#039;t, no &quot;true&quot; researcher should.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I have a number of track casts that I have found over the years that did not meet the stiff requirements to gain a confirmation.  I&#039;m still confident that they came from cougars, but I don&#039;t boast about them and I certainly don&#039;t cry &quot;Sour Grapes&quot; when I get turned down.  I just move on and continue to search for more evidence.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m not out to debunk anyone or to put another group down.  Show me real evidence, and I&#039;ll stand behind you 100%.
&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I seriously doubt that there&#8217;s another person on this planet that wants to document evidence of the existence of cougars in the eastern U.S. more than I do.</p>
<p>And I will personally stand behind any evidence that will stand up to scientific scrutiny.  But when it doesn&#8217;t, no &#8220;true&#8221; researcher should.</p>
<p>I have a number of track casts that I have found over the years that did not meet the stiff requirements to gain a confirmation.  I&#8217;m still confident that they came from cougars, but I don&#8217;t boast about them and I certainly don&#8217;t cry &#8220;Sour Grapes&#8221; when I get turned down.  I just move on and continue to search for more evidence.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not out to debunk anyone or to put another group down.  Show me real evidence, and I&#8217;ll stand behind you 100%.</p>
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		<title>By: CASReaves</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ec-catfights/comment-page-1/#comment-12690</link>
		<dc:creator>CASReaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Feb 2007 19:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ec-catfights/#comment-12690</guid>
		<description>Between the time Stephanie C reported the dead cat to ECF and the time they got there, I have NO doubt whatsoever that somebody stopped and loaded that carcass into a car or truck and took it home - who&#039;s going to pass up a free cougar skin?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Between the time Stephanie C reported the dead cat to ECF and the time they got there, I have NO doubt whatsoever that somebody stopped and loaded that carcass into a car or truck and took it home &#8211; who&#8217;s going to pass up a free cougar skin?</p>
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		<title>By: Carol Maltby</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ec-catfights/comment-page-1/#comment-12689</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Maltby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Feb 2007 04:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ec-catfights/#comment-12689</guid>
		<description>Loren,

When I saw what I am pretty sure was a cougar here in Ulster County, New York (in the Catskill Mountains) last July, I went on to the net immediately to research. I emailed the Eastern Cougar Foundation within a couple of hours of the sighting, and I think I may have possibly called their hotline too. They never responded.  While I was waiting to hear from them to get an answer about where I should send what might have been its scat for analysis, I lost track of the baggie. It eventually got into the freezer.  I don&#039;t know how good its DNA might be at this point.

But if I do find it, what places would you suggest I send the little nuggets for testing? I think there are 3 or 4.

I did tell some DEC cops that I ran into about the sighting, but they were so underwhelmed about whether this might have any bearing on the activities of all the lone anglers at the edge of the reservoir that I didn&#039;t bother to make a formal report to the police.

Can you recommend a website that has sound files of eastern woodlands mammals, that might include a cougar&#039;s sounds and other cries that might be alarming if we don&#039;t recognize them?

Carol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Loren,</p>
<p>When I saw what I am pretty sure was a cougar here in Ulster County, New York (in the Catskill Mountains) last July, I went on to the net immediately to research. I emailed the Eastern Cougar Foundation within a couple of hours of the sighting, and I think I may have possibly called their hotline too. They never responded.  While I was waiting to hear from them to get an answer about where I should send what might have been its scat for analysis, I lost track of the baggie. It eventually got into the freezer.  I don&#8217;t know how good its DNA might be at this point.</p>
<p>But if I do find it, what places would you suggest I send the little nuggets for testing? I think there are 3 or 4.</p>
<p>I did tell some DEC cops that I ran into about the sighting, but they were so underwhelmed about whether this might have any bearing on the activities of all the lone anglers at the edge of the reservoir that I didn&#8217;t bother to make a formal report to the police.</p>
<p>Can you recommend a website that has sound files of eastern woodlands mammals, that might include a cougar&#8217;s sounds and other cries that might be alarming if we don&#8217;t recognize them?</p>
<p>Carol</p>
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		<title>By: btl</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ec-catfights/comment-page-1/#comment-12688</link>
		<dc:creator>btl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Jan 2007 00:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ec-catfights/#comment-12688</guid>
		<description>What amazes me the most is where this evidence came from... North Adams, where I live, where I grew up.

I&#039;ve been down the cobble trail many many times. While itself, not very remote there are many connecting trails (of note: appalachian and long) from it. I know where my first hike of the spring will be!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What amazes me the most is where this evidence came from&#8230; North Adams, where I live, where I grew up.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been down the cobble trail many many times. While itself, not very remote there are many connecting trails (of note: appalachian and long) from it. I know where my first hike of the spring will be!</p>
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		<title>By: tirademan</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ec-catfights/comment-page-1/#comment-12682</link>
		<dc:creator>tirademan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:00:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ec-catfights/#comment-12682</guid>
		<description>Well, there are so many sighting and stories of panthers and cougars in the east at www.newspaperarchive.com that it is incredible. I guess skeptics don&#039;t like to read, or look into history.

Here is just one letter to the editor I found from 1947!

Then again, this guy didn&#039;t have bigfoot on his possibility list in 1947 either! :)

tirademan

14—The Berkshire Evening Eagle, Thursday, Sept. 4, 1947
Letters
It&#039;s a Panther
To the Editor of THE EAGLE:—

For the past two years or so I have been reading the various pieces in The Eagle about a &quot;Thing&quot; which has been seen or heard in the surrounding territory. There has been little doubt in my mind, from ihe beginning, but that this animal is a panther. In fact, without having read any of these reports, I felt sure there was a panther roaming about because I heard a panther scream while up in the mountains west of Pittsfield one night a year ago this fall. I was raised in country where panthers were quite common. I have seen them, seen their habits and depredations and heard their blood-chilling scream on many an occasion. There is no mistaking that scream once you are accustomed to hearing it. The panther, puma, cougar and mountain lion are ail one and the same animal, and roam far and wide in their hunting grounds. It is not unusual for a panther to cover from 30 to 40 miles in one night&#039;s foraging. I have known of panther hunts, with hounds and horses, to last three days and cover 200 miles. Panthers do not necessarily stay in one region, but wander across hundreds of miles of mountain ranges, especially out o£ the mating season. There is no logical reason why a panther could not be in this vicinity. They are found from Canada to Mexico and could roam into this region as well as elsewhere. Admittedly, they are far more numerous in the West, but are by no means extinct in the East, nor barred from roaming down into this section from Canada or elsewhere, if their inclinations or train of circumstances should lead them to it. A panther is primarily concerned with food, and will eat a sheep in. Berkshire County as well as in Quebec. I took part in a panther hunt near the little village of Amsden, Vt. This panther had been killing livestock on surrounding farms for months, and was hold enough so that he became in the habit of stalking woodsmen. He was finally tracked down and found upon a ledge overlooking the highway and settlement. He was killed, but others came to the region. In one winter I found the carcasses of 19 deer which were killed and partly eaten by a panther, or panthers, in this same section of Vermont. There are many cases on record where panthers have attacked human beings. I had refrained from adding my bit to the news items on this subjects because of the many ridiculous remarks made by the inexperienced skeptics who have the unfounded conviction that for some unknown reason, a panther could not come here. I was quite intrigued by the conjecture as to whether it was a panther or bear track found in Stephentown. There is no comparison whatever, a panther&#039;s being round like a large dog&#039;s, only much larger, while a bear&#039;s is long and has a distinct heel on the hind feet. Also, panthers make tracks from 12 to 15 feet apart when loping along and much greater distances when stretching for speed.
W. H. HOISINGTON.
Windsor, Vt.
Not an Invention</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, there are so many sighting and stories of panthers and cougars in the east at <a href="http://www.newspaperarchive.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.newspaperarchive.com</a> that it is incredible. I guess skeptics don&#8217;t like to read, or look into history.</p>
<p>Here is just one letter to the editor I found from 1947!</p>
<p>Then again, this guy didn&#8217;t have bigfoot on his possibility list in 1947 either! <img src='http://www.cryptomundo.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>tirademan</p>
<p>14—The Berkshire Evening Eagle, Thursday, Sept. 4, 1947<br />
Letters<br />
It&#8217;s a Panther<br />
To the Editor of THE EAGLE:—</p>
<p>For the past two years or so I have been reading the various pieces in The Eagle about a &#8220;Thing&#8221; which has been seen or heard in the surrounding territory. There has been little doubt in my mind, from ihe beginning, but that this animal is a panther. In fact, without having read any of these reports, I felt sure there was a panther roaming about because I heard a panther scream while up in the mountains west of Pittsfield one night a year ago this fall. I was raised in country where panthers were quite common. I have seen them, seen their habits and depredations and heard their blood-chilling scream on many an occasion. There is no mistaking that scream once you are accustomed to hearing it. The panther, puma, cougar and mountain lion are ail one and the same animal, and roam far and wide in their hunting grounds. It is not unusual for a panther to cover from 30 to 40 miles in one night&#8217;s foraging. I have known of panther hunts, with hounds and horses, to last three days and cover 200 miles. Panthers do not necessarily stay in one region, but wander across hundreds of miles of mountain ranges, especially out o£ the mating season. There is no logical reason why a panther could not be in this vicinity. They are found from Canada to Mexico and could roam into this region as well as elsewhere. Admittedly, they are far more numerous in the West, but are by no means extinct in the East, nor barred from roaming down into this section from Canada or elsewhere, if their inclinations or train of circumstances should lead them to it. A panther is primarily concerned with food, and will eat a sheep in. Berkshire County as well as in Quebec. I took part in a panther hunt near the little village of Amsden, Vt. This panther had been killing livestock on surrounding farms for months, and was hold enough so that he became in the habit of stalking woodsmen. He was finally tracked down and found upon a ledge overlooking the highway and settlement. He was killed, but others came to the region. In one winter I found the carcasses of 19 deer which were killed and partly eaten by a panther, or panthers, in this same section of Vermont. There are many cases on record where panthers have attacked human beings. I had refrained from adding my bit to the news items on this subjects because of the many ridiculous remarks made by the inexperienced skeptics who have the unfounded conviction that for some unknown reason, a panther could not come here. I was quite intrigued by the conjecture as to whether it was a panther or bear track found in Stephentown. There is no comparison whatever, a panther&#8217;s being round like a large dog&#8217;s, only much larger, while a bear&#8217;s is long and has a distinct heel on the hind feet. Also, panthers make tracks from 12 to 15 feet apart when loping along and much greater distances when stretching for speed.<br />
W. H. HOISINGTON.<br />
Windsor, Vt.<br />
Not an Invention</p>
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		<title>By: Darkstream</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ec-catfights/comment-page-1/#comment-12686</link>
		<dc:creator>Darkstream</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ec-catfights/#comment-12686</guid>
		<description>This sort of infighting is the main reason why I left Henry Franzoni&#039;s Bigfoot mailing list back in 1996/1997 when Eric Beckjord and his fans were smearing list regulars who didn&#039;t believe in their psychic alien invisible Bigfeet theories. ;) It was hard having rational discussions when they used ad hominem attacks on me. I just ended up getting heated and hurt. However, being older and wiser I now know this sort of silliness comes with the territory. Niche focus groups generate these clashes of egos. The best response is to take the higher path and not respond to their accusations. Or as my younger, more sagacious brother once told me, never argue with crazy people. Unfortunately, that&#039;s not as easy to do as say.

I hope that EPRN is able to weather this storm. They have passion and belief on their side. I wish them luck in their efforts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This sort of infighting is the main reason why I left Henry Franzoni&#8217;s Bigfoot mailing list back in 1996/1997 when Eric Beckjord and his fans were smearing list regulars who didn&#8217;t believe in their psychic alien invisible Bigfeet theories. <img src='http://www.cryptomundo.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  It was hard having rational discussions when they used ad hominem attacks on me. I just ended up getting heated and hurt. However, being older and wiser I now know this sort of silliness comes with the territory. Niche focus groups generate these clashes of egos. The best response is to take the higher path and not respond to their accusations. Or as my younger, more sagacious brother once told me, never argue with crazy people. Unfortunately, that&#8217;s not as easy to do as say.</p>
<p>I hope that EPRN is able to weather this storm. They have passion and belief on their side. I wish them luck in their efforts.</p>
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		<title>By: Georgia_Bigfoot</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ec-catfights/comment-page-1/#comment-12687</link>
		<dc:creator>Georgia_Bigfoot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jan 2007 02:16:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ec-catfights/#comment-12687</guid>
		<description>Having corresponded with the ECF in the past and having received a quite rude and unprofessional response I can&#039;t say that I&#039;m surprised by this turn of events.

It&#039;s a shame most certainly, but not a surprise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having corresponded with the ECF in the past and having received a quite rude and unprofessional response I can&#8217;t say that I&#8217;m surprised by this turn of events.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a shame most certainly, but not a surprise.</p>
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		<title>By: Mnynames</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ec-catfights/comment-page-1/#comment-12685</link>
		<dc:creator>Mnynames</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jan 2007 01:32:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ec-catfights/#comment-12685</guid>
		<description>This reminds me of the &quot;bone wars&quot; between the paleontologists Edward Drinker Cope and Othniel Charles Marsh, where their digging teams would try to sabotage each other, badmouth them to locals, and in at least one instance, dynamite fossils they didn&#039;t have time to excavate themselves so that they wouldn&#039;t fall into the hands of their &quot;enemies.&quot;  Tragic waste of irreplaceable resources...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This reminds me of the &#8220;bone wars&#8221; between the paleontologists Edward Drinker Cope and Othniel Charles Marsh, where their digging teams would try to sabotage each other, badmouth them to locals, and in at least one instance, dynamite fossils they didn&#8217;t have time to excavate themselves so that they wouldn&#8217;t fall into the hands of their &#8220;enemies.&#8221;  Tragic waste of irreplaceable resources&#8230;</p>
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