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	<title>Comments on: Death at Loch Ness</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/death-ness/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/death-ness/</link>
	<description>for Bigfoot, Lake Monsters, Sea Serpents and More</description>
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		<title>By: Dr. Strings</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/death-ness/comment-page-1/#comment-53238</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Strings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 19:43:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=10898#comment-53238</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry for being a little late to the dance, folks, but I wanted to add my two cents on the &quot;Death of Loch Ness&quot; episode and DT. I was quite disappointed with the &quot;Loch Ness&quot; opener, as the previews for it led me to believe it was going to cover quite a bit of interesting speculation on possible environmental conditions that have effected the Loch and many other things as well. I enjoy many of the episodes just for the science and speculation behind the subjects, as I don&#039;t honestly expect absolute proof of anything from the cryptid camp showing up. 

I really like listening to Dr. Rines, but this new theory that Nessie is dead or long dead comes off as a last grasp at straws; if you can&#039;t prove the creature exists, then it must have existed at one time and must be dead now. It falls into that &quot;can&#039;t disprove a negative&quot; area for me; it was never proven to exist, but now it&#039;s dead so you can&#039;t prove it didn&#039;t exist. I echo the sentiment that the implication is a lone creature survived extinction 65 million years ago to swim the loch for all these years, an absurdity that defies common sense, which tells you there would have to be a breeding population that would certainly result in more tangible sightings. 

I think the advancements of science, technology, and people&#039;s thinking is no coincidence to the fact that lake monster and sea serpent sightings (especially at Loch Ness) have dwindled down to nearly nothing as time marches on. The fact that most of the photographic or film evidence that points to Nessie being a plesiosaur has been exposed as fraudulent, &quot;enhanced&quot;, or misidentified mundane objects or animals as time wears on is also a factor in the decline of sightings. If somebody keeps telling you a plesiosaur lives in a lake and that&#039;s what you must have seen, then you believe it. When you see something &quot;strange&quot;, whether it&#039;s an otter, fish, wake, boat, or anything else, you immediately think of it as Nessie. The power of suggestion is strong. The power of evidence is also strong, and as much as I&#039;ve always wanted to believe, I now think Nessie was nothing more than a great, mythical tourist attraction for Scotland. I still want to go there just to visit, but I don&#039;t expect to see a monster in the loch. The facts and evidence just don&#039;t bear it out.

Concerning &#039;Destination Truth&#039;, I really enjoy the show. The fact that it&#039;s really a myth chase doesn&#039;t detract from the fun, adventure, and research Josh has, goes through, and does. You learn interesting facts about the locales, as you do in most shows concerning cryptids. Proving even one of these creatures to be true is the Holy Grail, but the things you learn along the way about different cultures, lands, environments, etc. are the great thing about these types of shows. Only complaint I have is with the &#039;Blair Witch&#039;-style night vision green camera stuff; I can&#039;t stand it and it&#039;s completely overused in just about every so-called &quot;creepy&quot; or &quot;scary&quot; show on TV today. I understand the stealth purposes behind it, just wish there was less of it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for being a little late to the dance, folks, but I wanted to add my two cents on the &#8220;Death of Loch Ness&#8221; episode and DT. I was quite disappointed with the &#8220;Loch Ness&#8221; opener, as the previews for it led me to believe it was going to cover quite a bit of interesting speculation on possible environmental conditions that have effected the Loch and many other things as well. I enjoy many of the episodes just for the science and speculation behind the subjects, as I don&#8217;t honestly expect absolute proof of anything from the cryptid camp showing up. </p>
<p>I really like listening to Dr. Rines, but this new theory that Nessie is dead or long dead comes off as a last grasp at straws; if you can&#8217;t prove the creature exists, then it must have existed at one time and must be dead now. It falls into that &#8220;can&#8217;t disprove a negative&#8221; area for me; it was never proven to exist, but now it&#8217;s dead so you can&#8217;t prove it didn&#8217;t exist. I echo the sentiment that the implication is a lone creature survived extinction 65 million years ago to swim the loch for all these years, an absurdity that defies common sense, which tells you there would have to be a breeding population that would certainly result in more tangible sightings. </p>
<p>I think the advancements of science, technology, and people&#8217;s thinking is no coincidence to the fact that lake monster and sea serpent sightings (especially at Loch Ness) have dwindled down to nearly nothing as time marches on. The fact that most of the photographic or film evidence that points to Nessie being a plesiosaur has been exposed as fraudulent, &#8220;enhanced&#8221;, or misidentified mundane objects or animals as time wears on is also a factor in the decline of sightings. If somebody keeps telling you a plesiosaur lives in a lake and that&#8217;s what you must have seen, then you believe it. When you see something &#8220;strange&#8221;, whether it&#8217;s an otter, fish, wake, boat, or anything else, you immediately think of it as Nessie. The power of suggestion is strong. The power of evidence is also strong, and as much as I&#8217;ve always wanted to believe, I now think Nessie was nothing more than a great, mythical tourist attraction for Scotland. I still want to go there just to visit, but I don&#8217;t expect to see a monster in the loch. The facts and evidence just don&#8217;t bear it out.</p>
<p>Concerning &#8216;Destination Truth&#8217;, I really enjoy the show. The fact that it&#8217;s really a myth chase doesn&#8217;t detract from the fun, adventure, and research Josh has, goes through, and does. You learn interesting facts about the locales, as you do in most shows concerning cryptids. Proving even one of these creatures to be true is the Holy Grail, but the things you learn along the way about different cultures, lands, environments, etc. are the great thing about these types of shows. Only complaint I have is with the &#8216;Blair Witch&#8217;-style night vision green camera stuff; I can&#8217;t stand it and it&#8217;s completely overused in just about every so-called &#8220;creepy&#8221; or &#8220;scary&#8221; show on TV today. I understand the stealth purposes behind it, just wish there was less of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Nasser</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/death-ness/comment-page-1/#comment-52088</link>
		<dc:creator>Nasser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 06:09:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=10898#comment-52088</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hello David Fullam,

yes that&#039;s the photo I am referring to sorry for being vague there. Despite the many years that have gone by without any follow up at Loch Ness, I think it will always hold a facination with the public and cryptids alike whether there was or not an animal living within its deeps.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello David Fullam,</p>
<p>yes that&#8217;s the photo I am referring to sorry for being vague there. Despite the many years that have gone by without any follow up at Loch Ness, I think it will always hold a facination with the public and cryptids alike whether there was or not an animal living within its deeps.</p>
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		<title>By: DavidFullam</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/death-ness/comment-page-1/#comment-52057</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidFullam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 15:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=10898#comment-52057</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I Like both Rines and Shine a great deal. Two very dedicated, interesting individuals. A really in depth show about Caddy would be most welcome. Are you referring to the photo that showed the carcass that was re moved from a whale, the baby Caddy shot?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I Like both Rines and Shine a great deal. Two very dedicated, interesting individuals. A really in depth show about Caddy would be most welcome. Are you referring to the photo that showed the carcass that was re moved from a whale, the baby Caddy shot?</p>
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		<title>By: Nasser</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/death-ness/comment-page-1/#comment-52036</link>
		<dc:creator>Nasser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 03:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=10898#comment-52036</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I absolutely agree with you DavidFullam. I too would have rather watched a documentry about the friendship between Robert Rines and Adrian Shine. Too often I expect to see something truly amazing on the show or even a clear picture or footage of a supposed cryptid. I for one am and will always be a Loch Ness enthusiast. I have recently received a signed copy of Adrian Shine&#039;s new book on the subject matter and have been trying to contact Robert Rines regarding his recent discovery of a supposed carcass. I was disappointed to find out that the actual spot where the &#039;carcass&#039; was found is no longer there! This confirms to me that the actual carcass was part of the terrain or rotted vegetation that gave the illusion of a carcass. Why don&#039;t they do a story on Cadbrosaurus! Has anyone seen the photo of this supposed animal? Its possibly the most credible I have ever seen and definitely fits the description of this animal.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I absolutely agree with you DavidFullam. I too would have rather watched a documentry about the friendship between Robert Rines and Adrian Shine. Too often I expect to see something truly amazing on the show or even a clear picture or footage of a supposed cryptid. I for one am and will always be a Loch Ness enthusiast. I have recently received a signed copy of Adrian Shine&#8217;s new book on the subject matter and have been trying to contact Robert Rines regarding his recent discovery of a supposed carcass. I was disappointed to find out that the actual spot where the &#8216;carcass&#8217; was found is no longer there! This confirms to me that the actual carcass was part of the terrain or rotted vegetation that gave the illusion of a carcass. Why don&#8217;t they do a story on Cadbrosaurus! Has anyone seen the photo of this supposed animal? Its possibly the most credible I have ever seen and definitely fits the description of this animal.</p>
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		<title>By: DavidFullam</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/death-ness/comment-page-1/#comment-51386</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidFullam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 17:10:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=10898#comment-51386</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I feel that the first ep was an hour of my life I can&#039;t get back. Pretty disappointing. In other words par for the course of Monster Quest lately. Nothing was proven, nothing was disproven, the usual.

Personally I would rather have seen a documentary that explores the friendship between Adrian Shine and Robert Rines. I find it fascinating that these two men on opposite sides of the fence are good buddies with great respect for the other&#039;s scientific knowledge.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel that the first ep was an hour of my life I can&#8217;t get back. Pretty disappointing. In other words par for the course of Monster Quest lately. Nothing was proven, nothing was disproven, the usual.</p>
<p>Personally I would rather have seen a documentary that explores the friendship between Adrian Shine and Robert Rines. I find it fascinating that these two men on opposite sides of the fence are good buddies with great respect for the other&#8217;s scientific knowledge.</p>
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		<title>By: cliffhanger042002</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/death-ness/comment-page-1/#comment-51312</link>
		<dc:creator>cliffhanger042002</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 20:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=10898#comment-51312</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, despite my feelings and opinions about MQ that were formed last season, Loren has a point about giving MQ Season 3 a chance, I will still be tuned in tonight at 8:00 PM central time. I just hope that the popcorn isn&#039;t the most interesting part of the hour, because like others the description of Ep 1 doesn&#039;t sound too promising, but we&#039;ll see. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, despite my feelings and opinions about MQ that were formed last season, Loren has a point about giving MQ Season 3 a chance, I will still be tuned in tonight at 8:00 PM central time. I just hope that the popcorn isn&#8217;t the most interesting part of the hour, because like others the description of Ep 1 doesn&#8217;t sound too promising, but we&#8217;ll see. <img src='http://www.cryptomundo.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: coelacanth1938</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/death-ness/comment-page-1/#comment-51310</link>
		<dc:creator>coelacanth1938</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=10898#comment-51310</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The idea of a dead Nessie kind of ruins my calm. With so many life forms going extinct and expected to go extinct, if there there was a Nessie, are we guilty of it&#039;s death?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea of a dead Nessie kind of ruins my calm. With so many life forms going extinct and expected to go extinct, if there there was a Nessie, are we guilty of it&#8217;s death?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: cliffhanger042002</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/death-ness/comment-page-1/#comment-51309</link>
		<dc:creator>cliffhanger042002</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 16:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=10898#comment-51309</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Loren - There was alot of negative feedback on DT, but it was never from me, I&#039;ve always been more on DT than MQ, just because DT is far more entertaining to me. The only comment I ever made that could possibly be misconstrued as negative (and I&#039;m not saying that is the case) was when we had a huge thread going about DT&#039;s 1/2 hour vs. full hour per cryptid format, and I would like to see some slight changes there in some instances, but not for all. I&#039;m just getting less and less impressed by MQ after every episode I watch, I mean really, and then sometimes (example Giant Rats Ep.) I wondered why I even bothered and what the point was in making such an episode. It was just like MQ couldn&#039;t find anything more interesting and decided that they could fill an hour with giant rats. So, Honestly, who enjoyed the Giant Rat episode from last season of MQ?? Anyone?? I just feel like DT is heading in one direction (IMHO, the right direction) and MQ is way off in left field.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Loren &#8211; There was alot of negative feedback on DT, but it was never from me, I&#8217;ve always been more on DT than MQ, just because DT is far more entertaining to me. The only comment I ever made that could possibly be misconstrued as negative (and I&#8217;m not saying that is the case) was when we had a huge thread going about DT&#8217;s 1/2 hour vs. full hour per cryptid format, and I would like to see some slight changes there in some instances, but not for all. I&#8217;m just getting less and less impressed by MQ after every episode I watch, I mean really, and then sometimes (example Giant Rats Ep.) I wondered why I even bothered and what the point was in making such an episode. It was just like MQ couldn&#8217;t find anything more interesting and decided that they could fill an hour with giant rats. So, Honestly, who enjoyed the Giant Rat episode from last season of MQ?? Anyone?? I just feel like DT is heading in one direction (IMHO, the right direction) and MQ is way off in left field.</p>
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		<title>By: mystery_man</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/death-ness/comment-page-1/#comment-51304</link>
		<dc:creator>mystery_man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 12:02:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=10898#comment-51304</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[springheeledjack- Right, there is no major ecological problem that I have seen that would explain the sudden disappearance of a whole species of creatures that have managed to survive in this environment and all of the changes the Loch has undoubtedly gone through in the last few million years. Climate change wouldn&#039;t seem to make sense as an explanation as the climate has varied wildly in that time frame, and it isn&#039;t as if the things have been hunted down by humans (unless their bodies are being stored in that big warehouse, next to the Lost Ark of the Covenant). I don&#039;t believe overfishing is a problem, or that the environment is in some sort of particular crisis. The Loch seems to be just as viable an ecosystem now as it has ever been in that time frame. 

If Nessie is real, then even if there were problems along these lines, it seems a bit of a dubious claim to assume that the discovery of a corpse means it is the last one because of the lack of sightings. This is a completely unfounded notion that cannot be proven by the presence of a single carcass, and is a bit of a muddled argument anyway. 

Through what means was this conclusion reached? Even if as Mr. Rines claims Nessie had in fact not been seen by &lt;em&gt;anybody&lt;/em&gt; since the 70s, which is incidentally false anyway, the finding of a carcass does not indicate anything other than the existence of the animal, no more no less. Many animals have gone a lot longer than that without being seen, only to pop up again. A single carcass found in the Loch means nothing with regards to determining the extinction of an entire species. I find it laughable that that such a dramatic conclusion was reached merely by the image of a single possible carcass. Even if this was the last one left, there is no way to know that by finding a single carcass.

Anyway, it is not described as &quot;the last one.&quot; It seems to be implied that it is the only one. One of these creatures trapped in the Loch for millions of years? Is it a unique mutant creature that developed independently from some other creature in the Loch and caused all of the sightings by itself? The idea of only one is wrong on so many levels, do I really have to explain why? 

To anyone actually reading this, make no mistake, I am not bashing Monster Quest as a whole. This is not a dump on MQ. The show actually seems pretty level headed for the most part. I am directing my comment solely at the write up for the Loch Ness episode listed here. I see claims that I find scientifically questionable and maybe a bit irresponsible, so I felt the need to call it out and point out the absurdity of these claims.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>springheeledjack- Right, there is no major ecological problem that I have seen that would explain the sudden disappearance of a whole species of creatures that have managed to survive in this environment and all of the changes the Loch has undoubtedly gone through in the last few million years. Climate change wouldn&#8217;t seem to make sense as an explanation as the climate has varied wildly in that time frame, and it isn&#8217;t as if the things have been hunted down by humans (unless their bodies are being stored in that big warehouse, next to the Lost Ark of the Covenant). I don&#8217;t believe overfishing is a problem, or that the environment is in some sort of particular crisis. The Loch seems to be just as viable an ecosystem now as it has ever been in that time frame. </p>
<p>If Nessie is real, then even if there were problems along these lines, it seems a bit of a dubious claim to assume that the discovery of a corpse means it is the last one because of the lack of sightings. This is a completely unfounded notion that cannot be proven by the presence of a single carcass, and is a bit of a muddled argument anyway. </p>
<p>Through what means was this conclusion reached? Even if as Mr. Rines claims Nessie had in fact not been seen by <em>anybody</em> since the 70s, which is incidentally false anyway, the finding of a carcass does not indicate anything other than the existence of the animal, no more no less. Many animals have gone a lot longer than that without being seen, only to pop up again. A single carcass found in the Loch means nothing with regards to determining the extinction of an entire species. I find it laughable that that such a dramatic conclusion was reached merely by the image of a single possible carcass. Even if this was the last one left, there is no way to know that by finding a single carcass.</p>
<p>Anyway, it is not described as &#8220;the last one.&#8221; It seems to be implied that it is the only one. One of these creatures trapped in the Loch for millions of years? Is it a unique mutant creature that developed independently from some other creature in the Loch and caused all of the sightings by itself? The idea of only one is wrong on so many levels, do I really have to explain why? </p>
<p>To anyone actually reading this, make no mistake, I am not bashing Monster Quest as a whole. This is not a dump on MQ. The show actually seems pretty level headed for the most part. I am directing my comment solely at the write up for the Loch Ness episode listed here. I see claims that I find scientifically questionable and maybe a bit irresponsible, so I felt the need to call it out and point out the absurdity of these claims.</p>
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		<title>By: springheeledjack</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/death-ness/comment-page-1/#comment-51300</link>
		<dc:creator>springheeledjack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 06:00:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=10898#comment-51300</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ll agree the Loch NEss thing is definitely panhandling to media hype...probably goes with the territory in shows like these...as was pointed out, often MQ does not come up with the ultimate answers on these cryptid shows and so they have to tease it up (it may not even be up to those who are doing the research and the bulk of the work for the show...could be the ones holding the purse strings deciding they want flashier tag lines).

I have seen other shows on Nessie that have showed a possible carcass at the bottom...no conclusive proof so far, so we will see, just another tantalizing possibility...but I&#039;m with MM...there is obviously more than one critter in Loch Ness, and even if the blob at the bottom would turn out to be a carcass, doesn&#039;t mean the show&#039;s over in Ness...there have been no dramatic changes to the eco system that I am aware of, and even in NEssie&#039;s hey-day, she wasn&#039;t doing free photo shoots any time a tourist walked by.

So, yeah, I&#039;ll watch with hope--hope that they put together something professional (better than DT), and hope that they can at least come up with some new data on their topics...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll agree the Loch NEss thing is definitely panhandling to media hype&#8230;probably goes with the territory in shows like these&#8230;as was pointed out, often MQ does not come up with the ultimate answers on these cryptid shows and so they have to tease it up (it may not even be up to those who are doing the research and the bulk of the work for the show&#8230;could be the ones holding the purse strings deciding they want flashier tag lines).</p>
<p>I have seen other shows on Nessie that have showed a possible carcass at the bottom&#8230;no conclusive proof so far, so we will see, just another tantalizing possibility&#8230;but I&#8217;m with MM&#8230;there is obviously more than one critter in Loch Ness, and even if the blob at the bottom would turn out to be a carcass, doesn&#8217;t mean the show&#8217;s over in Ness&#8230;there have been no dramatic changes to the eco system that I am aware of, and even in NEssie&#8217;s hey-day, she wasn&#8217;t doing free photo shoots any time a tourist walked by.</p>
<p>So, yeah, I&#8217;ll watch with hope&#8211;hope that they put together something professional (better than DT), and hope that they can at least come up with some new data on their topics&#8230;</p>
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