Crypto-Cat-Fight Continues
Posted by: Loren Coleman on May 10th, 2006
Oh no, Matt Moneymaker. Watch out! Here comes Daniel Perez and a possible future treatment in The Bigfootimes. Perez is telegraphing to the world that he’s interested in gathering stories that people have been telling online and privately for years about Moneymaker. As Perez posted on a public forum yesterday: "The more I hear about Moneymaker’s activities, the more I think he should be exposed for what he is."
As far as a quick update on our May 7th posting, entitled "BFRO Declares War on Cryptomundo," Cryptomundo informants discovered soon afterwards that some rapid editing occurred at the BFRO. Aware of the tales of the disappearing of the So-no-no-ma video claims, no one was shocked by this. There was little surprise that revisions would be visited upon the BFRO’s "advice" to Malaysia so quickly after we posted about the BFRO stumblings.
On Monday, May 8th, right after the Cryptomundo posting, the BFRO "commentary" went through some changes. The alterations appeared to be especially targeted at the following two original passages:
It’s definitely not a “best practice” among real scientists (as opposed to non-scientist authors who call themselves cryptozoologists) to be melodramatic about photos without actually showing them.
and
One good image will sell the book better than 1,000 news conferences or 5 “pulp cryptozoology” bloggers.
The new May 8th BFRO commentary, seemingly addressed to Vincent Chow, was again found immediately below the New Straits Times article, read late on that date, thusly:
This would be a bigger story, obviously, if the photos (even just one of the photos) were shown during the press conference. Do you plan to do another press conference about the book when you can actually show the photos??
We’re assuming your objectives with this book are worldwide interest, widespread acceptance, and the many splendored things that come along with all that. How could these objectives be hindered by releasing the photos early on, if you’re already giving a press conference about the book?
It’s not a good practice to be talking about photos without actually showing them. Public expectations about unseen photos are bound to rise beyond the actual clarity of the images. The actual images will inevitably fall short of what most people will be expecting, unless expectations are set appropriately from the beginning, by showing a sample. Best to avoid creating false expectations. If you can’t show the photos yet, then you should not give press conferences about them.
There will not be advanced orders of the book just based on hype about unseen photos. It won’t happen that way, no matter what Loren tells you.
The copyright owner of the photos has nothing to lose by releasing one image, but has everything to gain, especially if there is more than one image.
One good image will sell the book better than 1,000 news conferences or 5 Loren Colemans.
Well, now that, LOL, made clear what and whom was being discussed in the earlier version, didn’t it?
Of course, this revised "commentary" suffered from the same shortcomings of the other one, apparently not understanding that there never was an initial press conference about the book’s publication. Or even that I was not giving anyone any advice about what they should or should not be doing in Malaysia. No, that happens to be a projection from a certain person at the BFRO, and not based in reality. Ha. But we’ve gone over this before.
That’s okay. It makes sense, since the BFRO has not been in the middle of this story, and their reaction time has been confused and short of the mark. The fantasy "book press release conference" that never happened has spun off into many incorrect facts. For example, on Coast to Coast AM tonight I’ll detail how even the nonexisting "June publication date" developed from a misunderstanding. We are not going to see this book for months, perhaps not even until next year or beyond.
Online you’ll find bloggers like the Ghost Writer, for example, cleverly characterizing the first Cryptomundo blog vs BFRO commentary as a "crypto-cat-fight". And BFRO-clones have dropped comments at Cryptomundo. But this tempest in a teapot is merely illustrative of the strong personalities and politics that people sometimes ignore within cryptozoology. Hominology and cryptozoology have all the positives and negatives of every other human endeavor. So be it. The pursuit of unknown animals continues on.
By the way, what’s the looks of the latest BFRO version of their "commentary," as seen and visible on the morning of May 10, 2006? Well, not surprisingly, the header "BFRO Commentary" is still there, but the editorial below it has been completely removed. All you find this morning is a blank page. But go ahead and check yourself. There might be something new there by now.
+++++++++++++++++
Update: Now this has gone international. .
About Loren Coleman
Loren Coleman is one of the world’s leading cryptozoologists, some say “the” leading living cryptozoologist. Certainly, he is acknowledged as the current living American researcher and writer who has most popularized cryptozoology in the late 20th and early 21st centuries.
Starting his fieldwork and investigations in 1960, after traveling and trekking extensively in pursuit of cryptozoological mysteries, Coleman began writing to share his experiences in 1969. An honorary member of Ivan T. Sanderson’s Society for the Investigation of the Unexplained in the 1970s, Coleman has been bestowed with similar honorary memberships of the North Idaho College Cryptozoology Club in 1983, and in subsequent years, that of the British Columbia Scientific Cryptozoology Club, CryptoSafari International, and other international organizations. He was also a Life Member and Benefactor of the International Society of Cryptozoology (now-defunct).
Loren Coleman’s daily blog, as a member of the Cryptomundo Team, served as an ongoing avenue of communication for the ever-growing body of cryptozoo news from 2005 through 2013. He returned as an infrequent contributor beginning Halloween week of 2015.
Coleman is the founder in 2003, and current director of the International Cryptozoology Museum in Portland, Maine.
all I can do is shake my head……
Jeeeez…
I agree, the pursuit of the unknown goes on, and this silliness should just be seen for what it is and left to slide under the rug. It’s Mr. Chow’s research, and it’s his business how and in what medium he chooses to publish it.
Well, this certainly has taken the heat off the BFRO over the Sonoma Video – interesting how new fights are created when the head of the BFRO is being questioned yet again for his tactics.
What a difference a fight makes.
As a late comer to all this ..Is matt moneymaker his real name or one someone has made up? In England we would tell him to Grow up and behave like an adult.
Everyone is after the same thing, the proof of an unknown creature, and should be able to work together.
Loren, don’t you feel somewhat complicit in all of this, though? Cryptomundo has posted 5 or 6 (possibly more) blog entries about the Malaysian photos and the surrounding hullabaloo. Exactly what type of response were you expecting? OF COURSE people are going to want to see the pictures that are mentioned.
Now, you’re essentially asking us to pull back and wait–yet you and the rest of the writers here continue to talk about the book and the “fights” over it. I’m at a loss to understand where all of this is going.
” It’s not a good practice to be talking about photos without actually showing them. Public expectations about unseen photos are bound to rise beyond the actual clarity of the images. The actual images will inevitably fall short of what most people will be expecting, unless expectations are set appropriately from the beginning, by showing a sample. Best to avoid creating false expectations. If you can’t show the photos yet, then you should not give press conferences about them.
The copyright owner of the photos has nothing to lose by releasing one image, but has everything to gain, especially if there is more than one image.”
While the believer in me is far more optimistic, the cautious skeptic in me tends to agree with the above quote. Granted, there have already been more than enough breathless unveilings of “the best new evidence” and the majority of them have all come up short, so in a way this seems to be a new approach; talk up what’s coming without actually showing anything so the nay-sayers don’t have any preliminary info to use against the movement. Ultimately, we won’t know what this is all about until the book comes out (save some new development) so until then let’s encourage everyone to remain civil, at least until the Johor pics are released, at which time I’m sure there’ll be a whole new muck slinging salvo. *heehaw*
“To err is human”. To really foul things up requires a lawyer. In this case, Money Maker demonstrates that he is an unprofessional attorney and a horse’s back-side.
Sometimes there are different paths to the truth…
Loren, by any chance to do you know if anything “official” has come out of Malaysia? In one of the earlier posts it said that the Sultan had seen the photo’s and was convinced that they were real. “When a member of the press reminded Vincent that the Sultan of Johor was skeptical about these creatures’ existence, he explained that the Sultan changed his mind right after he saw the photographic evidence. These photos were supposedly taken by an elderly man who has been observing these creatures for years. “He took them with telephoto lenses,” said Vincent.” I don’t know exactly what a Sultan does, or if he’s a real goverment figure or not — do you?
Is the official protection of these creatures something that could be coming soon (I hope)? I would think that the location of these creatures would be cordoned off from say loggers, media, or any Moneymaker that could cause harm. Has any other group jumped on this story yet, like the WWF, or the WWO? Is this story out in the scientific community?
For whatever it is worth, Matt is now asking Vincent Chow to join his Public Forum.
What is more interesting is a google ad for the Alliance of Independent Bigfoot Researchers appeared right above this request. Wow, life is stranger than fiction isn’t it!
Does anyone else find this whole saga very sad and disapointing?
As someone who has (like most on here) freely admitted to the outside world that I have an interest in bigfoot and other cryptids and taken countless snide comments and the like it was nice to find the various websites on the internet devoted to bigfoot and cryptozoology.
I then could not believe how much infighting, name calling and general childish nonsense I had to wade through-some sites I found where appaling linking Bigfoot to ghosts with footprints , UFOs and all manner of things. If this is what some believe then fine but its not for me.
Is it not better to live and let live with an eye to help everyone achieve there goal and prove these creatures exist?
Breaking News: Monkey suit rentals in Johor skyrocket!
“Is it not better to live and let live with an eye to help everyone achieve there goal and prove these creatures exist?”
Your right, that should be everyones goal. But, writers love controversy, media types blow things out of proportion, this is what brings people to the forums and blogs and ultimatly sells books. Look at the evening news, hundreds of Iraq horror stories and Bush admin. indiscretions, but nobody is reporting that more americans have jobs now than anytime in american history. Reason and logic doesn’t sell.
hmmmmmmmm
interesting none the less
Cryptozoology will be better off when the pursuit of these creatures is left to those who examine the topic critically and scientifically. It’s a shame that Moneymaker has managed to sour the topic for so many. Despite his claims of bringing science to the search, I have found little science or open inquiry in his methodologies.
This crypto haiku
Looks a gift horse in the mouth:
BFRO’s Site!
Exciting Home Page
Information everywhere!
Reports and photos
Recent encounters
Monthly expeditions too!
Plus detailed archives
Their activities
Provide timely data streams
That is what we need!
Who cares about names?
Information gathering
Should be the main goal
Obvious to see
Sasquatch needs recognition
Keep eyes on the prize!
Cat fights and sniping
Only cloud the main issue
And waste precious time!
Hi All,
DEWHURST you hit the nail right on the head there. Although there are some great things about crypto info being so readily available on the internet these days thanks to sites like this, the down side (basically all the things you describe in your post) have driven me right back to books for the most part. Too many “know it all’s” and people looking for an argument (not debate) for me. A shame as the internet has also given us immediate access to the authors and researchers we admire.
Such is the age we live in……
Long live books! …..but cryptomundo still rocks.
P.S. Love the comment from my fellow englishman asking if Moneymaker was his real name 🙂 Believe it or not he also hails from a town where many of the people that live there want to be famous and rich. Go figure.
I’ll make my millions off the mexican staring frog of southern sri lanka one of these days! You just wait and see Loren!
If we all pull in different direction we’ll never find out goals.
Or have we already lost sight of them?
What’s a Mexican Frog doing in Sri Lanka?
A- hem fellow english lady if you don’t mind Mr Smith. not all amateur cryptozoologists are men.
🙂
that’s what makes it a cryptid, it’s a Mexican frog in Sri Lanka!… and even weirder than that, I think the last reported sighting came from some small town in Colorado.
Well said Tabitca. My humble apologies
🙂
Fuzzy, obviously you don’t watch south park. The mexican staring frog of southern sri lanka can only be found in a small mountain town in colorado.
Cheers all
Sorry Jeremy, I didn’t see you had already replied to that. Thanks. The bigger question should have been what is it staring at!? Not the fact that it is mexican but in sri lanka.
The Mongolian Swamp Moose and the Vietnamese Mountain Yak are my other cryptid interests 🙂
Comments on the topic at hand, folks. I have a sense of humor as much as the next person, but this is not a chatroom for discussions between individuals. It is a “comment” source, tied to the subject(s) under discussion.
Thank you.
🙂
apologies Mr Coleman and fellow commentators. I shall endeavour to keep my english capacity for digression under control in future.
(great site by the way)
Well, we’re certainly ferreting out new species of life on this thread!
Fuzz: my haiku man! Bravo. And so on point.
Bottom line: I wouldn’t give anyone a picture from the book before the book’s in their hands. They have too much to LOSE. A picture — without the wealth of how-we-got-it background that sure better be in the book….oh hell why go on? Let me just say: Patterson film.
Agreed Dewhurst….the fuss should be about validating and preserving the creatures…not BFRO…or us…JMHO
seeing is believing…
ole bub and the dawgs
DWA-26: Thanks!
Ferreting ~ I love it!
I think releasing pre-pub teaser pix from a book about, say, chimps, would encourage people interested in chimps to buy the book, and those pix would probably not generate “Cryptoversy” or negative press ~
BUT ~ Releasing even one pic from a book about a captive group of, say, pterodactyls, without proper scientific confirmation, could only generate the kind of dissecting, criticizing, hypothesizing, fraternizing and juvenile mud-slinging we have seen recently, with the result that many of the book’s potential buyers would turn away in disgust!
There’s only one way to properly deliver this kind of mind-bending information, and that is to maintain total control of it, and that’s what the photo owners are doing.
As I asked in another thread, if you had clear, unambiguous close-up color photos of Nessie, what would you do?
as far as i am concerned bfro is a joke i have deleted them from favorites a long time ago. as far as information goes i can get more here, all bfro is looking for is dollars it is understood that it takes money to run an operation but their web site suffers from dead issue disorders and links that are unavailable they need to reprioritize.
This is such a joke. Does ANYONE on this site really believe that if such an incredible discovery had been made, that organizations such as the WWF or the National Geographic Society, would not be yelling from the rooftops about such a find. This is just another way to make people like us look foolish once again. Penn and Teller were not enough. Now people can laugh at us, as we sit back and anxiously await this so called “book”. A book that has no announced publishing date. A book that claims it has earth shattering photos, yet the person who took what can be the most important scientific photos of the century wants to remain unknown. The more and more I hear about this Malaysian Bigfoot, the more and more I think we will be humiliated once again.
Lord, I wish I could eat these words
I dunno if anyone will get this far down to read this but I must say that it appears to me that the quality of the BFRO’s investigation and reporting practices has diminished to the point of not being recognized as a “Scientific Research Organization” and that getting involved with a “Cat Fight” with such an organization would only lower the credibility of one’s self!
JSmith-Dewhurst is also a fellow Englishman.
Tally ho!
You know I heard a TV show say one time “The Truth Is Out Their” Oh lord where is it!
“They” have begun to closely monitor and round up the “eco-terrorists”, declaring them to be a public enemy and nuisance. Will “they” subsequently classify the fanatical militant (and armed) “bigfoot researchers” sitting out there in the woods as such?
Abominable!