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	<title>Comments on: Cougar Killed in Chicago</title>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 07:30:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: pgb7112000</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/chic-puma/#comment-42151</link>
		<dc:creator>pgb7112000</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 00:03:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/chic-puma/#comment-42151</guid>
		<description>I’m not sure an argument can be made that mountain lions don’t attack humans in the US because of all the open space.   In California, there are 5K – 6K mountain lions sharing a state with more than 33M people.  Not exactly the definition of open space for an animal that needs between 25 and 300 square miles of territory for adult mountain lions, depending on terrain and other factors.  Even with such limited space, there have only been a dozen attacks in California by mountain lions, with 3 fatalities since 1986.  I know that’s no comfort for those families, but the likelihood of being killed by dogs or bees is far greater than by mountain lions.  My point still, is that mountain lions, much like wolves do not see humans as a menu item, and have learned through the years to avoid humans at all costs.  If these animals are found in a major city, it’s not because they are looking for a tasty human snack, but rather making its way to more fertile hunting grounds by following ancient game trails which have been paved over by humans.

As for actually dealing with these animals if they stumble into one of our large cities.  Obviously the police should not be responsible for this task.  Their only function in these situations would to keep the public at a safe distance.  The only people qualified to deal with these types of animals, other than possibly veterinarians who are too busy running their private practices, are zoo personnel.  Most cities have at least one zoo, if not more within their boundaries.  They have the most experience when it comes to tranquilizing animals, and should be able to put together some kind of emergency response team for dealing with these situations.  Since mountain lions or other large wild animals wandering into residential neighborhoods happens so infrequently, there shouldn’t be much burden for the zoos in handling these sporadic encounters.  Plus expenditures for tranq guns and training wouldn’t need to come out of any law enforcement budgets.   This would also take care of the monitoring of the animal once it has been sedated, since zoo personnel are also qualified in this area.  And even if it takes up to 30 minutes for the animal to be sedated…so what?  The first calls on this animal came early in the morning, and the police couldn’t track it down until 6pm.   And in all that time no one was killed.   30 minutes of waiting is much better than years in the court system fighting lawsuits.



In the case of this particular mountain lion, Chicago’s Animal Control, would have been of no assistance since it seems by looking at their website, that they are only capable of dealing with dogs, cats, and rabbits.  But letting the police shoot almost a dozen rounds to kill a 150lb cat in a residential neighborhood is lunacy.  Imagine if one of those bullets had gone through someone’s window and killed them.  If you want to see the police get sued then by all means, keep up these kinds of activities, because the odds are that someone will get shot.   Cities need to develop emergency response teams in coordination with their local zoos before something like this happens in the future…and it will because the mountain lions are headed east.    And with so little mountain lion habitat east of the Mississippi, it will happen sooner rather than later.



This shouldn’t be taken as a don’t kill the animal at all costs plea, obviously if there are no other options available, and the animal can’t be sedated or trapped, then unfortunately these animals have to be removed.  But with a population of 300M and counting, the amount of wild space left in this country is quickly diminishing as we try to plaster this country with houses and condos from sea to shining sea.  Alternatives have to be found to the ‘kill first’ mentality or these animals with end up in small isolated pockets of wilderness where they will reach genetic dead-ends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m not sure an argument can be made that mountain lions don’t attack humans in the US because of all the open space.   In California, there are 5K – 6K mountain lions sharing a state with more than 33M people.  Not exactly the definition of open space for an animal that needs between 25 and 300 square miles of territory for adult mountain lions, depending on terrain and other factors.  Even with such limited space, there have only been a dozen attacks in California by mountain lions, with 3 fatalities since 1986.  I know that’s no comfort for those families, but the likelihood of being killed by dogs or bees is far greater than by mountain lions.  My point still, is that mountain lions, much like wolves do not see humans as a menu item, and have learned through the years to avoid humans at all costs.  If these animals are found in a major city, it’s not because they are looking for a tasty human snack, but rather making its way to more fertile hunting grounds by following ancient game trails which have been paved over by humans.</p>
<p>As for actually dealing with these animals if they stumble into one of our large cities.  Obviously the police should not be responsible for this task.  Their only function in these situations would to keep the public at a safe distance.  The only people qualified to deal with these types of animals, other than possibly veterinarians who are too busy running their private practices, are zoo personnel.  Most cities have at least one zoo, if not more within their boundaries.  They have the most experience when it comes to tranquilizing animals, and should be able to put together some kind of emergency response team for dealing with these situations.  Since mountain lions or other large wild animals wandering into residential neighborhoods happens so infrequently, there shouldn’t be much burden for the zoos in handling these sporadic encounters.  Plus expenditures for tranq guns and training wouldn’t need to come out of any law enforcement budgets.   This would also take care of the monitoring of the animal once it has been sedated, since zoo personnel are also qualified in this area.  And even if it takes up to 30 minutes for the animal to be sedated…so what?  The first calls on this animal came early in the morning, and the police couldn’t track it down until 6pm.   And in all that time no one was killed.   30 minutes of waiting is much better than years in the court system fighting lawsuits.</p>
<p>In the case of this particular mountain lion, Chicago’s Animal Control, would have been of no assistance since it seems by looking at their website, that they are only capable of dealing with dogs, cats, and rabbits.  But letting the police shoot almost a dozen rounds to kill a 150lb cat in a residential neighborhood is lunacy.  Imagine if one of those bullets had gone through someone’s window and killed them.  If you want to see the police get sued then by all means, keep up these kinds of activities, because the odds are that someone will get shot.   Cities need to develop emergency response teams in coordination with their local zoos before something like this happens in the future…and it will because the mountain lions are headed east.    And with so little mountain lion habitat east of the Mississippi, it will happen sooner rather than later.</p>
<p>This shouldn’t be taken as a don’t kill the animal at all costs plea, obviously if there are no other options available, and the animal can’t be sedated or trapped, then unfortunately these animals have to be removed.  But with a population of 300M and counting, the amount of wild space left in this country is quickly diminishing as we try to plaster this country with houses and condos from sea to shining sea.  Alternatives have to be found to the ‘kill first’ mentality or these animals with end up in small isolated pockets of wilderness where they will reach genetic dead-ends.</p>
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		<title>By: Endroren</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/chic-puma/#comment-42150</link>
		<dc:creator>Endroren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/chic-puma/#comment-42150</guid>
		<description>"And sorry Endroren…but exactly how many people have been killed by cougars in the US in the past 50 years. We are not a typical meal for these animals. "

One might argue that open space and lack of contact is the primary reason, and that killing the Mountain Lion in situations where they are forced into direct contact with man is the other reason for this.

I'm sorry folks but all the "poor animal bad humans" talk is really annoying. It doesn't take ANY of the realities of this situation into account.

Who pays for tranq guns? How often will they get used? Who pays to train the cops to use them? How many of these bloody guns do you think they'll need? Who will write the rules for the proper use of these weapons? Who will present it to city council for approval? If the money is used for tranq guns it has to come from somewhere. I don't see any of you volunteering to pay for this so it's going to been less money for other parts of law enforcement budgets.

And read up on tranqing animals. You don't just shoot them, they fall asleep, and you're done. You have to monitor their vital signs VERY closely. Who on the force will get this training? Who will buy the equipment. I mean you are pumping this animal FULL of powerful drugs. This can prove as fatal as a bullet if you don't handle this as a medical procedure. You're as "TV ignorant" as the people you're criticizing because the only tranquilizing you've seen is the edited footage on Discovery channel that makes it seem so easy.

And do you know what standard Zoo policy is for handling an escaped large cat? Shoot it. Not with a tranq gun. With a rifle. The animal is pumped up on adrenaline, there is no telling how much chemical to use (no, the little darts aren't load and shoot...they are a medical device). Too little, you piss it off and it go crazy. Too much, you kill it. On top of that, a proper dose can take up to 30 minutes to take effect!

I'm not even going to go into the "how bad does the police department get sued it a wild cougar kills a citizen while they wait for the zoo to arrive." SO many factors that you so conveniently gloss over.

It's really wonderful to have the luxury of sitting backing and shouting "Evil Police Evil Society Evil Humans" without knowing what you are talking about and giving no thought to the full situation.

You know, maybe if you focus your efforts and anger on preserving the habitats where these animals can live safely instead of yelling about this, maybe then it will make a difference. Then you won't have them pushed into thickly inhabited areas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And sorry Endroren…but exactly how many people have been killed by cougars in the US in the past 50 years. We are not a typical meal for these animals. &#8221;</p>
<p>One might argue that open space and lack of contact is the primary reason, and that killing the Mountain Lion in situations where they are forced into direct contact with man is the other reason for this.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry folks but all the &#8220;poor animal bad humans&#8221; talk is really annoying. It doesn&#8217;t take ANY of the realities of this situation into account.</p>
<p>Who pays for tranq guns? How often will they get used? Who pays to train the cops to use them? How many of these bloody guns do you think they&#8217;ll need? Who will write the rules for the proper use of these weapons? Who will present it to city council for approval? If the money is used for tranq guns it has to come from somewhere. I don&#8217;t see any of you volunteering to pay for this so it&#8217;s going to been less money for other parts of law enforcement budgets.</p>
<p>And read up on tranqing animals. You don&#8217;t just shoot them, they fall asleep, and you&#8217;re done. You have to monitor their vital signs VERY closely. Who on the force will get this training? Who will buy the equipment. I mean you are pumping this animal FULL of powerful drugs. This can prove as fatal as a bullet if you don&#8217;t handle this as a medical procedure. You&#8217;re as &#8220;TV ignorant&#8221; as the people you&#8217;re criticizing because the only tranquilizing you&#8217;ve seen is the edited footage on Discovery channel that makes it seem so easy.</p>
<p>And do you know what standard Zoo policy is for handling an escaped large cat? Shoot it. Not with a tranq gun. With a rifle. The animal is pumped up on adrenaline, there is no telling how much chemical to use (no, the little darts aren&#8217;t load and shoot&#8230;they are a medical device). Too little, you piss it off and it go crazy. Too much, you kill it. On top of that, a proper dose can take up to 30 minutes to take effect!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not even going to go into the &#8220;how bad does the police department get sued it a wild cougar kills a citizen while they wait for the zoo to arrive.&#8221; SO many factors that you so conveniently gloss over.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s really wonderful to have the luxury of sitting backing and shouting &#8220;Evil Police Evil Society Evil Humans&#8221; without knowing what you are talking about and giving no thought to the full situation.</p>
<p>You know, maybe if you focus your efforts and anger on preserving the habitats where these animals can live safely instead of yelling about this, maybe then it will make a difference. Then you won&#8217;t have them pushed into thickly inhabited areas.</p>
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		<title>By: rayrich</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/chic-puma/#comment-42149</link>
		<dc:creator>rayrich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 01:59:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/chic-puma/#comment-42149</guid>
		<description>Gotta love the human race. We're afraid of our own shadows. Pathetic!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gotta love the human race. We&#8217;re afraid of our own shadows. Pathetic!</p>
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		<title>By: DARHOP</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/chic-puma/#comment-42148</link>
		<dc:creator>DARHOP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:13:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/chic-puma/#comment-42148</guid>
		<description>As to what Ampersand said (see above)...


     Couldn't of said it better myself. That animal didn't have to die. Poor thing. Chalk another one up to the all mighty human race! Man I just hate us sometimes!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As to what Ampersand said (see above)&#8230;</p>
<p>     Couldn&#8217;t of said it better myself. That animal didn&#8217;t have to die. Poor thing. Chalk another one up to the all mighty human race! Man I just hate us sometimes!</p>
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		<title>By: redwood</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/chic-puma/#comment-42147</link>
		<dc:creator>redwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 16:25:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/chic-puma/#comment-42147</guid>
		<description>We had that coyote jump into a Quiznos refrigerated drink area a few years ago, and that ended much better.  A mountain lion is far more intimidating than a coyote, but still...the news never mentioned the presence of a tranquilizer gun, and the footage of the residents showed people who were entirely unrepentant in the death of the animal.  That's what hurts nearly as much as the blatant shooting of this puma.  It just saddens me to no end.

I know our cops were in a bad situation of dealing with an unusual threat in a nicer neighborhood, but somebody, somewhere, should have had a tranquilizer gun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We had that coyote jump into a Quiznos refrigerated drink area a few years ago, and that ended much better.  A mountain lion is far more intimidating than a coyote, but still&#8230;the news never mentioned the presence of a tranquilizer gun, and the footage of the residents showed people who were entirely unrepentant in the death of the animal.  That&#8217;s what hurts nearly as much as the blatant shooting of this puma.  It just saddens me to no end.</p>
<p>I know our cops were in a bad situation of dealing with an unusual threat in a nicer neighborhood, but somebody, somewhere, should have had a tranquilizer gun.</p>
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		<title>By: pgb7112000</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/chic-puma/#comment-42146</link>
		<dc:creator>pgb7112000</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 16:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/chic-puma/#comment-42146</guid>
		<description>It's disturbing how sheltered a society we've become.  One witness said "It was the freakiest thing I ever saw", while another 'knew it was a cougar because he had seen it on the Discovery Channel'.  This is the state of America today.  A country which spends the majority of it's time in front of their televisions and X-boxes, and their only encounters with wildlife are with pigeons and squirrels.

It should be no surprise that situations like these always end in the death of the animal.  Our trigger happy society says shoot first and ask questions later.  Apparently, after they had cornered the animal, they were shocked that the animal turned on them.  I guess they were expecting it to turn and play poker with them and when it didn't break out a deck of cards, they blasted it.

Isn't it about time the police are trained to 'dart' animals in these situations instead of waiting for Animal Control to show up.

And exactly how long does it take to get a response from Animal Control in Chicago.  Is the city so flooded with cougars that they couldn't get someone to this neigborhood before 6pm.  Letting the police fire off ten rounds to kill a cat, put the residents more in danger than the animal did.

Wake up Chicago...before this happens again.

And sorry Endroren...but exactly how many people have been killed by cougars in the US in the past 50 years.  We are not a typical meal for these animals.

Mountain Lion vs Man = Dead Mountain Lion</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s disturbing how sheltered a society we&#8217;ve become.  One witness said &#8220;It was the freakiest thing I ever saw&#8221;, while another &#8216;knew it was a cougar because he had seen it on the Discovery Channel&#8217;.  This is the state of America today.  A country which spends the majority of it&#8217;s time in front of their televisions and X-boxes, and their only encounters with wildlife are with pigeons and squirrels.</p>
<p>It should be no surprise that situations like these always end in the death of the animal.  Our trigger happy society says shoot first and ask questions later.  Apparently, after they had cornered the animal, they were shocked that the animal turned on them.  I guess they were expecting it to turn and play poker with them and when it didn&#8217;t break out a deck of cards, they blasted it.</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t it about time the police are trained to &#8216;dart&#8217; animals in these situations instead of waiting for Animal Control to show up.</p>
<p>And exactly how long does it take to get a response from Animal Control in Chicago.  Is the city so flooded with cougars that they couldn&#8217;t get someone to this neigborhood before 6pm.  Letting the police fire off ten rounds to kill a cat, put the residents more in danger than the animal did.</p>
<p>Wake up Chicago&#8230;before this happens again.</p>
<p>And sorry Endroren&#8230;but exactly how many people have been killed by cougars in the US in the past 50 years.  We are not a typical meal for these animals.</p>
<p>Mountain Lion vs Man = Dead Mountain Lion</p>
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		<title>By: dimestore</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/chic-puma/#comment-42145</link>
		<dc:creator>dimestore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:27:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/chic-puma/#comment-42145</guid>
		<description>I live in this area, in fact I bike past that spot on my way to work.  This is a heavily populated neighborhood. Hundreds of people are walking around there at any given hour.  There was really no alternative.  There are no wild animal darters employed by Chicago, and I doubt Animal Control could have done anything. They would have had to get a professional from the zoo to come out, and who knows how long that would take. Large predators are not easy to dart, and there is no way to control the animal until it falls asleep.  When you dart a large animal they are pissed off and wander around. Also, there is no "wild" to release a cougar to in Illinois.  I love kitties as much as the next person, but I don't really see what else could have been done.  Just take a look at google street view and I think you'll know what we're talking about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live in this area, in fact I bike past that spot on my way to work.  This is a heavily populated neighborhood. Hundreds of people are walking around there at any given hour.  There was really no alternative.  There are no wild animal darters employed by Chicago, and I doubt Animal Control could have done anything. They would have had to get a professional from the zoo to come out, and who knows how long that would take. Large predators are not easy to dart, and there is no way to control the animal until it falls asleep.  When you dart a large animal they are pissed off and wander around. Also, there is no &#8220;wild&#8221; to release a cougar to in Illinois.  I love kitties as much as the next person, but I don&#8217;t really see what else could have been done.  Just take a look at google street view and I think you&#8217;ll know what we&#8217;re talking about.</p>
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		<title>By: Endroren</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/chic-puma/#comment-42144</link>
		<dc:creator>Endroren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/chic-puma/#comment-42144</guid>
		<description>I'm not saying the situation ended well...it didn't, but it's a freaking MOUNTAIN LION. Mountain Lion vs Man = Dead Man. Come on people. The report was that they tried to contain it (whether this was a good plan or not is a different issue) but it came at one of them and they shot it. There was no "hunt it down and kill it" story here. Read the article.

Are there better ways to handle wild carnivores that wander into human occupied areas? Yes...but I doubt it will surprise you to know that this isn't something the folks in Chicago deal with a lot. Do you really think these guys were trained for this? Do you think it is even worth tax payer money to train them for this sort of scenario? The city and its suburbs have plenty of other problems that come up far more often than Cougar wrangling.

And do you think they hadn't called Animal Control? I'm sure they had, but they FINALLY found this thing that had been roaming around and they didn't want to lose it before Animal Control go there.

And do you think the neighbors would have said "No no...take your time and just watch it. Sure, it might get away, but we'd rather have a frightened hungry cougar running around our yards and our kids than have you shoot it." What did you expect the cops to do?

I love wildlife. I want to preserve wildlife. But you can't take a situation like this, with all the many factors that lead up to it and factor into it, and blanket it with a "Gang Mentality Brutal Cops Shoot Wonderful Beautiful Peaceful Creature."

Next time they spot a cougar we'll have them call you and you can hug it and pet it until animal control arrives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not saying the situation ended well&#8230;it didn&#8217;t, but it&#8217;s a freaking MOUNTAIN LION. Mountain Lion vs Man = Dead Man. Come on people. The report was that they tried to contain it (whether this was a good plan or not is a different issue) but it came at one of them and they shot it. There was no &#8220;hunt it down and kill it&#8221; story here. Read the article.</p>
<p>Are there better ways to handle wild carnivores that wander into human occupied areas? Yes&#8230;but I doubt it will surprise you to know that this isn&#8217;t something the folks in Chicago deal with a lot. Do you really think these guys were trained for this? Do you think it is even worth tax payer money to train them for this sort of scenario? The city and its suburbs have plenty of other problems that come up far more often than Cougar wrangling.</p>
<p>And do you think they hadn&#8217;t called Animal Control? I&#8217;m sure they had, but they FINALLY found this thing that had been roaming around and they didn&#8217;t want to lose it before Animal Control go there.</p>
<p>And do you think the neighbors would have said &#8220;No no&#8230;take your time and just watch it. Sure, it might get away, but we&#8217;d rather have a frightened hungry cougar running around our yards and our kids than have you shoot it.&#8221; What did you expect the cops to do?</p>
<p>I love wildlife. I want to preserve wildlife. But you can&#8217;t take a situation like this, with all the many factors that lead up to it and factor into it, and blanket it with a &#8220;Gang Mentality Brutal Cops Shoot Wonderful Beautiful Peaceful Creature.&#8221;</p>
<p>Next time they spot a cougar we&#8217;ll have them call you and you can hug it and pet it until animal control arrives.</p>
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		<title>By: Ceroill</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/chic-puma/#comment-42143</link>
		<dc:creator>Ceroill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/chic-puma/#comment-42143</guid>
		<description>I find it very sad that it takes a situation like this for the officials to admit that such encounters can be real. At least they didn't trot out the old "It's obviously an escapee from a zoo or circus" line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it very sad that it takes a situation like this for the officials to admit that such encounters can be real. At least they didn&#8217;t trot out the old &#8220;It&#8217;s obviously an escapee from a zoo or circus&#8221; line.</p>
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		<title>By: Samson77</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/chic-puma/#comment-42142</link>
		<dc:creator>Samson77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 05:50:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/chic-puma/#comment-42142</guid>
		<description>Very well stated Photoexpert.
It is very sad that we as humans kill what we do not understand.
This terrified animal was probably just trying to get away from any human it encountered.
I personally live in an area surrounded by Mountain Lion habitat in So Cal and in 45 years have only seen 2, both of which wanted nothing to do with humans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very well stated Photoexpert.<br />
It is very sad that we as humans kill what we do not understand.<br />
This terrified animal was probably just trying to get away from any human it encountered.<br />
I personally live in an area surrounded by Mountain Lion habitat in So Cal and in 45 years have only seen 2, both of which wanted nothing to do with humans.</p>
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