Cartergate: Follow The Money
Posted by: Loren Coleman on October 5th, 2006
I sometimes get the feeling that scandals are breaking out all around us. It seems to be happening in Washington D.C. this week, and I wonder when it’s going to occur in Tennessee.
Myth or Real? Illustrating an alleged encounter: Janice meeting Fox in house’s basement, April 2002. Click to make Bigfoot even bigger.
My brother Jerry D. Coleman’s "A Carter Farm Investigation – Part Four" has now been posted.
The observations are good, and some of the photographs (see below) stimulated, shared, and debated in this melodrama clearly show a difference of opinion on even the landscape of the Carter "farm."
I think the most interesting question that Jerry’s asks, however, is this simple one:
Why would a researcher invest 3000 dollars to feed unseen creatures?
I want to push the envelope beyond where my brother has in his interesting column, and ask some questions I have from afar. I want to follow the money and more. My questions are:
So, actually, the $3000 wasn’t an investment was it? What did that researcher get back? Was it a payment? Was it, heaven help us all, coverup money? What was it really?
What kind of relationship do the principals in this story have? What’s the links here? What kind of sexual relationships have occurred between "eyewitnesses" and "researchers"? Have any of the principals involved been in trouble with the law? What kind of "front" could the Bigfoot stories there be hiding? Is there any known use of the "farm" for any kind of rural, er, crop?
This may seem odd, but in a couple of Carter Farm books that are overflowing with sexual Bigfoot details (TMI to some), I find it interesting that money, financial support, relationships, sexual affairs, mental health histories, criminal records, job records, human marriages and divorces, conflicts of interests, and farm ownership questions are not more openly being discussed by the promoters of the Carter Farm incidents.
Unanswered questions lead to unanswered feelings, conjecture, and distrust. So yes, Jerry, please follow the money, for starters!
++++ Additionally, in response to Jerry’s column, Will Duncan posted the following photo:
PHOTOGRAPH REMOVED DUE TO NASTY EMAILS FROM MARY GREEN. SEE MORE INFORMATION ON THIS SUBJECT, elsewhere.
To which, Bob Coppen’s reply helped really clear up what all those little numbers mean:
Looking at this photo, it struck me as familiar. Then it hit me: It was from 50 Years With Bigfoot! So I grabbed my copy and turned to page 235 and there it was: the aerial photo of the Carter Farm, as big as life! It even had little numbers on it, just like the photo in Will’s post does. And each number was used to indicate a special point of interest. This was done below the photo. The numbers and what they are supposed to represent are listed below: 1. Large oak tree growing out of a deep ditch line where the Bigfoot were fed for 20 years. 2. The farm house. 3. The tree from which Janice watched the Bigfoot. 4. The Bigfoot would often come out into the open here. Sheba especially broke cover in this area. She would come out of the woods with her young who often played all around her. 5. Another area where Janice would climb a pine tree in this one patch of woods to watch the Bigfoot. This was directly across from the Carter home and the area where the girl’s first noticed the monkey face in the trees. 6. The mobile home where Janice, Lila, and their mother, Melvina, lived. Trouble is, the numbers in Will’s photo have been transposed from the ones in my copy of 50 Years. 1 has become 3. 2 has become 5. 3 has become 1. 4 has become 2. 5 has become 4. 6 has been moved to designate the big barn to the right. And in my copy of the book there is no 7 at all. Or does the picture that Will posted come from an earlier edition? So what’s the deal? Does this book change from printing to printing? Has it really been published? Which of these numbers designates what? Where’s Waldo, anyway?
Gerry Bacon also shares his own photos of the "farm" and the invisible mountains in the background.
Why do I feel I now have even more questions about "fifty years" of contacts on this "farm"?
I’ve never really known what to think of the Carter Farm stories. After reading this, I must admit I’m quite a bit more sceptic than I already was. I seem to remember having read something somewhere about the Carter Farm Bigfoots having some sort of language, and the residents being able to communicate with them? It’s been a long while since the first time I read these things about this case, but I remember thinking there was a lot of pieces that didn’t fit together.
After reading the other website’s lengthy account of this little excursion, I am baffled by one thing. If the principle investigator(s) clearly sensed a hoax – as any rational individual could – why then was so much effort spent investigating the situation on-site? “At this stage of the investigation nothing had been found to support the claims that multiple bigfoot had ever visited the Carter farm. Because of this, another trip to Madisonville was in order.” Huh? That’s antithetical and illogical.
Although, kudos for even sending in the bigfoot “language” to a professional linguist but one really couldn’t be surprised of the outcome [as a control, I wouldn't have told the linguist it was purported biggy-speak but I digress]. The whole thing reeked of trailer park sensationalism and National Enquirer articles from the get go. It only stands out in the annals of local-yokel sightings in its ludicrous claims and therein wasn’t worth investigating. Other than to have a salacious story to tell.
The whole Carter Farm affair has to be the most embarassing thing to happen to cryptozoology in decades. Why so many people were taken in by it is beyond me, I always thought the story smelled worse than any skunk ape.
So is this the first time in 50 years that any one has noticed that there weren’t any mountains? How does that slip through the investigative cracks? Maybe because the investigations are so focused on prints, scat, hair, etc. that no one stops to take in the details of the accounts from the eyewitnesses.
I knew it! The whole thing was a scam! TV shows, book deals, royalties on what ever. Follow the money! No wonder someone from New Jersey figured they could get money out of the ‘nutty’ Bigfoot folks!
As lastensugle noted in comment #1 above, and as I remember reading here in Cryptomundo myself some months ago, the Carter Farm Bigfoot are alleged to have a language. Such a language, if it exists, would be MOST interesting to linguists, who would find it shedding CONSIDERABLE light on the origins and early history of language, and on the question of whether any pre-Sapiens hominids (Australopithecines, Homo etectus, Neandertals, etc.) had language. I thus wonder why the Carters, as far as I know, have never shown any specimens of the alleged Bigfoot language to linguists. Even if they did not know of the names of any linguists themselves, they could still have gotten in touch with the languages department of any local college or university who could have then helped them get in touch with qualified experts. Or are they afraid that linguists might find the language to be, let us say, cribbed from some science-fiction story? Presumably, though, the Carters would have had enough sense NOT to copy something as blatantly obvious as the “language of the apes” from Edgar Rice Burroughs’ “Tarzan of the Apes” books! :=) :=)It would sound TOO suspicious to have a Bigfoot yell “Kreegah!” for “Beware!”:=)
I am fairly new to reading the various Bigfoot reports. But 50 years with bigfoot and no photos or other proof?? Just stop right there and go no further.
Regards
In comment #2, eireman remarked that the Carters had indeed shown samples of the alleged Bigfoot language (“biggy-speak”) to a linguist–who eireman implies was quite skeptical. However, from the article on the Carter farm by Dmitri Bayanov I read here some time ago, I got the impression that the Carters had never thought of showing the alleged “biggy-speak” samples to a linguist.So, which is the case–DID the Carters show samples of alleged Bigfoot language to a linguist, or DIDN’T they. If they did, would anybody know the name and affiliation of the linguist in question. Incidentally, it would also make a big difference if they had shown it to a linguist who has published books and articles on the origin of language and the possible language(s) of pre-Sapiens hominids (e.g., Neandertals), or if they had just shown it to a Professor of French at the local community college!
The liguistic analysis is via Jerry Coleman. He contacted a university for their input.
Who did the analysis seems to have been redacted from the reply letter he was sent.
For you language folks. Janice clearly stated on the TV show, that they spoke English. I have no idea what the claims are in the book, as it is not worth my $30.00 to find out!
Trying to read between the lines here. Just can not figure out who is sleeping with whom. LOL
Even if these people were to try and get the language analyzed by a linguist, would any sort of linguist who is upstanding and published be waiting around to do this for them? I would be willing to bet that if I had a strange language that I wanted analyzed by a highly published and specialized linguist, I probably would not have an easy time of getting an audience with such a man. I am not a specialist in this field, but what kind of recources and time would it take for these farmers to go about getting this done, honestly?
Dear Cryptos…
I recently loaned my copy of “50 years” to the folks involved in the Honobia siege event…for their opinion….I’ll let you know what they have to say…
These wonderous creatures really do exist…I’ve seen them…twice.
If sasquatch ever visited the Carter farm…perhaps they stopped by to borrow some garlic…JMHO
Thanks to Jerry Coleman and those who helped perform the Carter investigative report, which Loren has posted here.
seeing is believing
ole bub and the dawgs
Farmers? I am sorry I have to agree with the fellow in Loren’s brothers post. These are Jerry Springer trailer trash folks, to paraphrase. They just live on that land. In fact I am fairly sure that they no longer even own it.
Loren gave the TV show a bad review, because of the script, which I agree with. However the players in this fantasy do themselves in when they start to open their mouths. Jerry D. Coleman hit the nail on the head with the pancake analogy.
Those of you that have any interest in this story, should take the time to read Jerry’s investigation, all 4 parts.
By the way, I also seem to remember, perhaps from the same tv show as some of you mention in the above posts, this Carter woman saying that she had the bigfoot (called “Fox” I believe) pull out some of its hair, which she claimed to have kept as evidence. Anyone know something about that?
lastensugle
Yes I think that hair is the hair talked about on the other lady’s site. Mary Green? The co-author of the book. She seems to be fairly straight forward, and honest, just very niave! Not sure if the hair was sent out or not, there were whines about the cost.
“Have any of the principals involved been in trouble with the law? What kind of “front” could the Bigfoot stories there be hiding? Is there any known use of the “farm” for any kind of rural, er, crop?”
Why would they want to draw so much attention to their place, so many people, if they were raising weed there? I’d just like to understand the basis for the insinuation. Drawing wide attention to a sensi farm doesn’t seem like a good strategy to ME. Might as well take out an ad in the Yellow Pages.
Anyway, I’m glad to see some controversy here, something of interest. It had gotten so quiet here that I was almost pining for a new BF hoax.
“it would also make a big difference if they had shown it to a linguist who has published books and articles on the origin of language and the possible language(s) of pre-Sapiens hominids (e.g., Neandertals), or if they had just shown it to a Professor of French at the local community college!”
I would put more stock in the community college professor. I saw an interesting show where the world’s greatest scholars tried to discredit a book because the authors supposedly didn’t have a written language, until they found writings carved into walls. But I digress, I saw the show with these folks, laughable. It seems if they were on such good terms with bigfoot they would have been able to ‘produce’ them during the filming. Shame on channels for even showing such garbage as factual documentaries as they continue to damage the hunt.
Probably you heard about my visit to the Carter Farm, TN. I have been 5 weeks there in September, 2004, having received strict confirmation of Janice Carter’s claims concerning Bigfoots there. This conclusion is based on the following evidence:
1) footprints left by one of the creatures in the basement of the house on the loosened earth of the floor; the creature had entered the basement for food specially left for it; the food was taken by it from a plastic bag hanging from the ceiling;
2) so-called markers made of logs, wooden poles, sticks, stems, etc., mostly pyramid-shaped, or bent and twisted young trees; similar markers we have found in hominoid habitats in Russia and they have been reported from elsewhere in North America;
3) BF “nests”, identified in particular by the proximity of the markers and definite signs of handy work;
4) abundant hair found by me in these nests, some hairs with nits (of lice) bigger than human ones; the hair clearly belonged to different specimens; similar hair samples found earlier at the farm have been identified by Dr.Fahrenbach as BF hair;
5) an interesting artifact: a clay ball with hair in it sticking outside as a small tail. The thing is definitely handmade and is probably some kind of BF toy (according to Janice the BF family there has a one and a half year old baby).
All of that is confirmation that Mary Green and Janice Carter have mostly described the truth in their “semi-finished product” of a book called “50 Years with Bigfoot.
Igor Bourtsev, Ph D (Hist), Russian hominologist,
Director of the International Center of Hominology,
Moscow, Russia
Hey Igor- I got some evidence for you!
1. Footprints can be faked.
2. Anyone can pile up sticks to make ‘markers’. Cows/horses/pigs can bend small trees/branches.
3. Nests can be faked. The pictures I have seen look like flood debris from heavy storms and run off. The hair could be any wild or domestic animal seeking to shelter.
4. It has been reported by several well known and trusted investigators that the whole area is ‘infested’ with hair of all sorts. The report from ‘Dr.Fahrenbach’ is nothing more than a measurement. No DNA has been attempted. ‘Dr.Fahrenbach’ claims that because the hair is X thick it is BF, that sounds more like BS.
5. Anyone can take a piece of horse tail and wrap mud around it to make a BF ‘toy’.
BTW I loved you acting like a BF on the TV show! You did well!
Loren, are you SURE that’s a turkey buzzard? ‘Cause it looks AWFULLY big! I’ve seen THOUSANDS of turkey buzzards in my life, some up pretty close, and that just doesn’t look like one to me.
The saddest part of all of this is that the poor woman is so obviously mentally ill. Quite possibly schizophrenic and quite possibly hereditarily.
Does she see something, does she talk to something, and does she have a relationship with something? The answer to all of those is ‘yes’. Is it Bigfoot? Well to her it is, maybe. I actually feel quite sad for her and her child. They need help from mental health professionals not reassurance from supposed “experts” and “investigators”.
I just don’t get the all the hoopla over this. Some good ole gals’ stories just got out of hand is what it sounds like. I have to agree with skunkape_hunter. Anywhere you have livestock you’re gonna have lots of hair of all kinds hanging on here and there.
As far as the “farm” being used to grow…er…FLOWER BUDS – well, who knows? Although it’s illegal, it’s the biggest cash crop in Kentucky, which is right next door to Tennessee & has similar growing conditions. Having Bigfoot prefer your home-grown might give it a certain mystique and drive up the price a bit, dontcha think?
Seriously people, if Bigfoot really had really hung out in this one spot for half a century and buddied around with the occupants, you’d think there would be at least ONE verifiable piece of DNA evidence and a photo or three.
Sky King-
Yeah, I know. My first impression was UFO, but then I thought water on the lense! Turkey vulture never crossed my mind.
Doesn’t look like a turkey buzzard. Doesn’t look like any bird. Maybe wind-blown debris caught up in that power line. Or something on the windshield.
I have read all parts of Jerry’s blog and I have to admit when I first heard about the Carter farm I belived them. Now sadly I don’t.
Is that something laying on the power lines? Have we stumbled upon a mystery within a non-mystery?
Has anyone seen those balloons that are black, and get heated by the sun and become lighter than air? Johnson Smith used to sell them, maybe still does. Pretty big things. That’s what this looks like.
Seems like a lot of people think that Tennessee is very mountainous. Actually only the extreme easternmost part of Tennessee is mountainous. Then you get down around Knoxville where you go from foothills into gently rolling farmland. Much of the state is pert nyer flat.
In any case where extensive, long-term contact is claimed, but there are no scientists invited to observe and no photographic, video, or hair sample evidence is produced, I can’t help but mentally file the case as “probable hoax” until proven otherwise.
I commented earlier that I have been to Madisonville many, many times. It is not Bigfoot country. I was raised in East Tennessee and we have no “Bigfoot” legacy of stories. Sorry to disappoint y’all but ol’ Biggie is not a Southerner. Now he may have migrated here with coyotes, armadillos and elk, but if he’s here he’s a new arrival. I guarantee you he’s not been to the Coy trailer park. The sad thing about this story is that it has some similarities to stories that sex abuse victims tell to cover up years of trauma. “Fox” maybe cousin Clem or Uncle Slim. Put this story to rest and get on with some credible research. Mud balls and twisted saplings aren’t signs of relic hominid habitation.
BTW that IS a turkey vulture. We grow em big in Tennessee along with our tale tales.
Bigfoot sightings are not uncommon in North Carolina. I don’t see why Eastern TN would be such a stretch, unless Bigfoot try to observe state lines.
But that’s really besides the point. I think that Janice believes her story is true. I, however, don’t believe it’s true.
Joppa, you’re gonna have to tell the Western Tennessee Bigfoot Research Group, because *I’m* sure not going to!
BFRO’s database lists 48 sightings, some recent, some far from it. I’d hate to be the one to say you’re all wet, but….
By the way, how long have you been growing headless turkey buzzards down ‘ere in Tennessee?
That’s a blobvulture. I firmly believe that if Biggies are in Tennessee they are recent migrants not native. For example, since 1980 the range of the Rocky Mountain cougar has expanded from the Rockies to the the Great Plains until last summer, a dead one was found next to railroad tracks in Southern Illinois. These babies can travel 160 miles a month. Here in Middle Tennessee we have had the first confirmed black bear sightings in over 40 years as they expand their range westward. The Cumberland Plateau of Kentucky and Tennessee is the most extensive “wild” area west of the Mississippi. If cougars can migrate from Colorado so can bipedal apes, and we have more hollows and hills to hide in than anywhere. Welcome I say. But sorry, there ain’t no Sasquatch at the Carter trailer park.
While most of you have already made up your minds about the Carter farm, and the two women who tell the story, Mary and Janice, I do want readers to know there are people out there who DO believe in these two women.
I visited Mary Green this summer, after reading her two books. We went out investigating for two days. During that time, I had a daylight sighting. I don’t have proof, and I am not a scientist. However, I can tell you that based on my personal experience, what Mary and Janice are telling the world is true.
Those of you who have an open mind, and aren’t blinded by the ruthless ridicule that exists in the Cryptobiology circles, might want to rethink whether this story is being promulgated for some purpose other than telling the truth. The story is too unbelievable to be made up.
Jerry Coleman’s excellent “investigation” notwithstanding, the two women have much to contribute to the study of Bigfoot. Given time, their names will be remembered, like Dian Fossey and Jane Goodall.
Okay after finding some basic references over the past few months here and there and reading the 4 part report, I am not convinced the truth does not lie somewherwe between ‘Hoax’ and ‘it all happened.’
I think more and more there was a possible first encounter with something when Janice was a child. Over the years her mind ‘adjusted’ the childhood event to mask some later event that was very painful to her. We may never know what. ButI have to ask is there anything ruling that out?
Not one shred of reliable evidence after 50 years and the hair wasn’t sent out because of the cost? Evidence like that would have been worth far more than any cost having the anylasis done would have incurred. Sounds like a lot of excuses and missed chances that just happen to avoid any kind of real proof to me. Hmmmm. The more I read about this and think about it, the more skeptical I become on this one. I really do have an open mind, but any kind of unknown animal in that kind of close proximity to humans for half a century nonetheless, would have been discovered by now, I’d figure.
‘The story is too unbelievable to be made up.’ Yeah, that is the logical way to approach this! (sarcasm)
Incredible claims require incredible evidence.
All one needs to do is google ‘Janice Carter Coy bigfoot’ and you will be able to piece together what has been left unsaid. It will require a lot of reading on many pages. I spent most of the night gathering the info. You will also see that there are one or two people that attempt to defend the two women. No doubt the two women themselves. In fact in one case they even admitted that it was them.
Incredible claims require incredible evidence.
Bent saplings, and hair all over the place on a farm do not mean that BF is stomping around. Occam’s Razor!
Yes, I understand why most of you would conclude that this whole Carter farm story is untrue. I find it very reasonable, given Janice’s treatment on the National Geographic show on Bigfoot and the comments constantly being made on websites, to think that this woman is crazy. I can’t argue with what is truly a reasonable conclusion.
And yet Igor Bourtsev, a russian hominologist, has just posted with his analysis, an analysis based upon his close contact with Janice and the Carter farm. Before you dismiss him, perhaps you should check his credentials. He certainly felt it worthwhile to come to America and spend time at the farm.
And hair samples have been sent, and have been examined. And videos have been made.
I suggest to some of you that perhaps there is more to this story than two crazy women making this up. I suggest that even though a vast majority of you who post on this site find the whole story to be unbelievable, that the current claims of these two women are deemed to be the claims of two crazy women, that perhaps that is not so.
I am not posting here to get into a fight. I don’t expect to get a warm reception. In fact, I am honestly surprised my posts are being displayed. But as one who considers himself close to both women, who has spent time recently with both women, who has examined the master copies of videos made by Mary Green, that has spent time in the field with Mary Green, I can honestly say that there is more to this than is being represented here.
I don’t think incredible evidence has been presented to date. I don’t have the foggiest idea of what would be deemed “incredible evidence” except for the Bigfoot named Fox to greet each and every one of you. It’s not going to happen.
But then again, I admit I am not a scientist. I am just a man who has been fortunate enough to make the acquaintance of these two women, and have been blessed with some truly remarkable, no incredible experiences.
Incredible experiences without incredible proof.
Thank you for allowing me to post on this website.
Tabman,
Incredible evidence? There is no evidence. The videos you speak of have been pulled from the web. As far as checking credentials, that has nothing to do with it. What you seem to be saying is, that because this person has impressive credentials, we should take his word for it. Sorry that is not how it works in the real world. Nothing, Nothing that Igor presented can be proven to be of cryptid in nature. Don’t get me wrong, I would love for this story to be true. But after 50 years, there should be at least one CLEAR photo of a creature. The excuse that they are afraid of cameras does not cut the mustard. That is why they make telephoto lenses. Not even the DNA can count out Human, Bat, and what ever other animal was mixed in the scat sample. Nothing in this story alludes to anything real. There is not even any evidence of a rape, or a girl being placed in a hospital. None of it adds up. Except that there was some sort of land dispute when the brother shot someone.
You are welcome to believe what you want. I am pretty sure I know who you are from your post. As I am pretty sure I have read your posts on another site, or two. You had a daylight sighting with Mary Green? I would like to know from what distance? Just curious, that’s all.
skunkape_hunter:
You, as well as anyone else who is curious, are welcome to view my sighting report on Mary Green’s Bigfoot website.
My sighting is under the Overton County sighting section. I reported sighting 42 and 43.
I respect your opinion, analysis. For you, there is not enough “hard” evidence. Fine.
I appreciate the opportunity to be able to post on this website, one I visit daily. I thank Mr. Coleman for allowing me to express my views on Mary and Janice.
I expect that this story will not fade away into the sunset. I fully expect this story to continue. Furthermore, I fully expect additional evidence to be presented. Maybe not historical evidence that will prove the 50 years with bigfoot story, because that is history now. But further proof from Mary and Janice with their continued research. Research that goes on beyond the Carter farm, far and wide.
I am sure the work of these two women will again grace this website.
Tabman
There is not much to say about your first encounter. You say that you were a witness to a BF sighting. The only part I would question is was this a prearranged meeting with Mary?
The second encounter I have a problem with. You say that you caught something moving in your peripheral vision, that slammed into your van. You say the van was rocked like you have never felt before. Yet there was no dent or damage to the van. Because you were out BF hunting, you surmise that you were ‘body slammed’ by BF. Does that mean that if I am out UFO watching, and on my way home my car is hit by something that it must be an alien, or UFO? Would it be more logical that a deer crossing the road glanced your van?
The fact that I have a problem with this whole Carter story is not that there is not enough ‘hard’ evidence. It is that there is NO hard evidence. The fact that the critter cam pics did not turn out throws huge red flags up for the foot print Igor got. The fact that Janice was allowed to take the film to be developed alone was a major mistake. More flags go up when it takes 3 trips for her to produce the negatives.
Let me be clear here. I do not think that this story is just two crazy women making things up. I think it is one fairly clever woman taking advantage of another woman, and some poor Russian, for personal gain, or other personal reasons. There was monetary gain when ‘researcher’ WD gave $3K to someone for feed and what not. I will stop there, as it just goes on and on.
You say that you hope there will be continued research by Jan and Mary. How is that going to happen? Janice does not own the property any longer. Ahh, but you said beyond the Carter farm, does that mean that Mary and Janice are now a team?
Also since you know these women maybe you can answer a question I have. While introducing the email from Janice on her site, Mary states that Janice is a loving wife and mother. The wife part is my question, where is the husband in all of this? He was not on the TV show, he has never made a statement that I can find. Is he in the family? I find this important, because if all the stuff went on that Janice claims, he would have had to witness at least some of it, if he were there.
This story i have followed for awhile, i have seen documentaries on this topic. This is one is a judgment call, janice carter goes into alot of detail on how these human like creatures live, hunt, birth, eat. She always mentions their names and even interacted. It could be real she has spoken with fox on many occasions. The one thing i question but the farm is located on one huge piece of land so anyhting is possible but if this family of bigfoots live on her farm and they live supposedly near the stream by her house where are the photographs of fox and his clan why not take photos of them or even video to prove once and for all that these things exist, but its very intriguing.
Ok got the answer I needed from the lead investigator. That is if you do not count Mary Green as the lead, since she is the co-author.
It seems that Janice was married to a Paul Coy when first contact was made with Mary Green. However shortly after they were divorced. Begs the question, has anyone asked this man if he had been witness to the claimed events? Another question comes to mind as well, what was the root of the divorce?
Reply by Igor Bourtsev to skunkape_hunter (19):
1. I have been involved in this research for 41 year and can distinguish the fake from real things.
On the other hand we were only three persons there inside the house, the door was closed and nobody went out. I checked the floor of the basement every evening. And I was the first person who entered the basement in that morning…
2. The trees were not just bent but some of them also twisted. In is possible to do only with very strong hands.
Secondly – the same things we found in Russian forests inhabited by wildmen!
3. The nests were MADE with hands, the hay had been BROUGHT from the distance? and fresh broken high green plant MARKERed the nests.
4. Also you should know that domestic animals don’t walk freely, but only inside the ELECTRIC fence. And hair were very similar to human ones, but more thick and many were too long for animals.
5. Do you seriously believe that somebody will make a clay ball, which purpose is difficult to explain – to prove the BFs existence? It could be created something more convincing…
That one who has ears will hear…
Igor,
I am sorry that you were made a fool of by that woman, but you really should try to apply Occam’s razor.
Are you leaving the part about the critter cam out on purpose ? The foot print had a critter cam posted near by. The film was taken to be developed by Janice. But oops, it got messed up! That is because Janice made the print.
Yes I seriously think that someone made that mud ball, I think someone carried hay, I think someone bent/twisted branches. I think that someone was Janice Carter, or someone helping her.
As for the rest of what I have seen, no one has given any evidence to support a claim of a cryptid. I mean come on, the hair is too thick, it must be BF! What a crock! You went out to look for BF and you found him! Just what you wanted to find! I bet I could go there and find evidence of alien visitation if that is what I set out to do!
The bottom line is, this woman conned you. Come on, you are supposed to be a scientist, yet you took everything she said as gospel truth. Almost as bad as Mary Green did, I have not seen anywhere that she was challenged by any of the ‘investigators’. Unless you count Jerry Coleman and company, but they did not get to talk to her.
I don’t know how long time you were at that place but I LIVED there 5 weeks, and it was enough time for me to come to conclusion that BFs habituate there. And what you tell is just malicious blackening of two honest women. One of them Mary is very ill physically and poor but find a force to inform the community about such events. Another one Janice just lives between BFs, consider them as Big Friends and is not interested much in proving their existence.
And I don’t understand what you want to have from them?
If you hate them – just leave them alone and not think and speak about them, nor spread such pieces of gossip about them.
Be a gentleman, not a market-woman!
Igor Bourtsev, Moscow, Russia
Hey Igor,
I don’t believe them. These women can not handle the heat, then maybe they should not have made claims they can not backup. You yourself admit that the WHOLE 5 weeks you lived there you never saw a BF!
One or two people in this discussion have commented how hard it may be to get a linguist, especially an eminent one, to examine a sample of unknown language brought in by a complete stranger, especially if that unknown language is alleged to be Bigfoot or extraterrestrial and if the evidence is just the complete stranger’s own handwritten or hand-typed notes, with no specimens of written language, no tapes of the sound of the language being spoken, etc. What many of us are not aware of, but most professional linguists are QUITE aware of, is that there are estimated to be something like 5,000-6,000 languages spoken on this planet, and no one linguist can possibly know or even just identify or recognize more than a very tiny fraction of those. The first thought thus of most linguists on being shown an alleged language sample brought in by a complete stranger “just off the street” is that it MIGHT be any one of those 5,000-6,000 already known languages, for starters–but WHICH one? Most linguists thus just wouldn’t have the time or inclination to spend even a minute on such a hopeless, impossible “needle in a haystack” task!
“Reply by Igor Bourtsev to skunkape_hunter (19):
1. I have been involved in this research for 41 year and can distinguish the fake from real things.”
Excuse me, Mr. Bourtsev, no disrespect intended, but if you are a scientist you must surely require more conclusive proof in your investigations than “I saw it and I say it’s real so take my word for it”?
Why should the people who post here, most of whom do believe in the existence of Bigfoot, take as proof YOUR WORD that all this Carter Farm “evidence” is the real McCoy and not fabrication? As a scientist, do you accept everything at face value, knowing that any and all of these things can be faked and HAVE been faked at other times and places? Do you not use a scientific method and a process of elimination in your investigations? If a crime was committed, and a white shirt was found at the crime scene, would you vote to convict someone of that crime because the shirt was the brand they wore? Or would you insist on solid evidence, including DNA typing and other corroborating evidence, before condemning that person?
You can’t expect others to accept this whole story at face value, without any concrete proof, just because you say it is all true. Observation of circumstantial evidence, even by a scientist, has little value other than anecdotal curiosity unless it can be scientifically tested. Even imminent scientists can have the wool pulled over their eyes. As a “hominologist” I am sure you must have heard about Piltdown Man.
Mea culpa. EMINENT scientists not imminent scientists.
“Jerry Coleman’s excellent “investigation” notwithstanding, the two women have much to contribute to the study of Bigfoot. Given time, their names will be remembered, like Dian Fossey and Jane Goodall.”
I beg to differ. Both Jane Goodall & Dian Fossey spent years among their animals, making detailed, VERIFIABLE observations, working under the guidance of Louis B. Leakey. They EARNED their acclaim through years of research and documentation.
Saying that the principal women in this case have “names [that] will be remembered, like Dian Fossey and Jane Goodall” is a little over the top.
Please, let’s be realistic.
There is no evidence in the form of photographs of these alleged Carter Bigfoot. Fossey and Goodall, besides their many observations, had photos to back up what they were saying.
The story is not over. We shall see in time.
What is over the top today may very well be accepted tomorrow.
Isn’t it amazing that this discussion continues while the story has moved to the second page of the site? How many times does that happen here?
The Dian Fossey, Jane Goodall comparison to these ladies is preposterous. These two scientists went out, observed and recorded with legitimate scientific methods, collected EVIDENCE that is reliable, and took PHOTOS (and I will say gorillas aren’t too keen on cameras either). This is a fact and not in dispute. Why did they do this? Because they want the world to truly understand these wonderful creatures. If that is the case with the ladies of the Carter Farm, and it seems they want to be taken seriously, then they should have gone through lengths to study, document, and collect evidence properly. We have only their word and some rather shaky evidence. As for the people who think it is too bizarre to be made up, there are novels and movies where whole worlds, languages, etc are created from imagination. Imagination is a powerful thing, but it does not prove anything about this story whatsoever. Scientists like Jane Goodall did not whip up their stories from imagination, they had to do what every scientist works hard to do and PROVE IT. Therefore, scientists don’t go out publishing things until they have the stuff to back it up. I dread the day when we start just accepting everybody’s fantastic stories at face value. I have not seen one piece of compelling evidence to support anything that was claimed at the Carter Farm. And if others involved in this case are truly scientists with all these credentials, then they know what they need to do for people to believe this story and they would not make claims without something to support those claims.
Can anyone tell me what it means to be a ‘market-woman’ in Russia ?
I had to get away from this for a couple days, I got to ramped up.
First of all thanx to Kittenz for that reply (#49) to Igor. I had become fairly frustrated by that point. Him saying I was spreading gossip (calling me a liar) did not help. So here is the ‘gossip’ on the critter cam, right off of Mary Greens own site. I have copied a clip to post here and will give the URL for all to read. I believe that the statement is a veiled claim of conspiracy by the locals.
…The camera was reportedly tripped on every picture, but when Janice took them in to be developed and returned later to pick them up, she was told that none of them were any good. She had to make additional trips at our insistence in order to obtain her negatives and pictures. In the end, the photographs all appeared to be over exposed and the negatives ruined. Lesson learned. Do not take your film to be developed by locals….
The italics are added by me. The URL to this part of the report is here.
In case the URL does not make it, the page is on Mary Greens site. It is page 4 of the updates on the Carter farm.
So I am not sure what gossip he is talking about. Maybe the fact that I think Janice faked it ?
Either way he asks what I want of them. I would like to see REAL evidence to support their very extraordinary claims.
The part where he tells me not to think or speak of them is a presumptive statement on his part.
50 years of BF in one relatively small location and no bodies? No bones? That bothers me even more than the lack of photos.