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	<title>Comments on: The Bayer Stone Head:  What Is It?</title>
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	<description>for Bigfoot, Loch Ness, and More</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 07:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: dogu4</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/bayer-stone-head/#comment-10945</link>
		<dc:creator>dogu4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Dec 2006 13:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/eastern-carved-stone-head-what-is-it/#comment-10945</guid>
		<description>A simulacrum of the speleotheme variety, as anyone who has spent time amid cave formations can readily relate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A simulacrum of the speleotheme variety, as anyone who has spent time amid cave formations can readily relate.</p>
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		<title>By: Riley</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/bayer-stone-head/#comment-10944</link>
		<dc:creator>Riley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Dec 2006 19:31:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It looks like a sculpture by &lt;a href="http://www.eldritchdark.com/galleries/by-cas/"&gt;Clark Ashton Smith&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It looks like a sculpture by <a href="http://www.eldritchdark.com/galleries/by-cas/">Clark Ashton Smith</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: dontgd</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/bayer-stone-head/#comment-10943</link>
		<dc:creator>dontgd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/eastern-carved-stone-head-what-is-it/#comment-10943</guid>
		<description>Skeptics say that we are trained by evolution to look for faces, etc. It's Ape-like because we know what apes look like.  Think of the Komodo dragon translated into the symbolic, artistic Chinese Dragon. There could be many things beyond North American Apes.  What strikes me, though, is the insistence that this was a 1932 item. Two friends at my 10th high school reunion told stories about me at Marching Band Camp. I was never in the band. Two of the guys had independently (?) translated an event from University Orientation into Marching Band Camp and that was merely 10 years later! The 1932 date and the four foot depth is nothing more than a guess to me because I have valid reasons to doubt them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Skeptics say that we are trained by evolution to look for faces, etc. It&#8217;s Ape-like because we know what apes look like.  Think of the Komodo dragon translated into the symbolic, artistic Chinese Dragon. There could be many things beyond North American Apes.  What strikes me, though, is the insistence that this was a 1932 item. Two friends at my 10th high school reunion told stories about me at Marching Band Camp. I was never in the band. Two of the guys had independently (?) translated an event from University Orientation into Marching Band Camp and that was merely 10 years later! The 1932 date and the four foot depth is nothing more than a guess to me because I have valid reasons to doubt them.</p>
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		<title>By: Carol Maltby</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/bayer-stone-head/#comment-10942</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Maltby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:55:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/eastern-carved-stone-head-what-is-it/#comment-10942</guid>
		<description>I live near there, so let me put it in some context for you. While I don't know where in New Paltz this was found, it could be  relatively close to two other claims of Bigfoot sightings in Ulster County. I'm going to assume for our purposes that a New Paltz origin for this might be more likely to be in the western part of the town, closer to the caves in the Shawungunk Ridge.

An entry on BFRO relates a &lt;a href="http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=8064"&gt;1985 sighting&lt;/a&gt; by two women of a large hairy biped near the entrance to Ice Cave Mountain in Cragsmoor. This would be about a 10-12 mile hike from western New Paltz.

There is a report of an &lt;a href="http://home.clara.net/rfthomas/news/seeing.html"&gt;alleged "baby" Bigfoot&lt;/a&gt; found on a 1997 videotape shot near Lembo Lake in Modena, of Route 44/45. This would be only about 5 miles south of western New Paltz, and about a 10-12 miles hike also from Cragsmoor.

The &lt;a href="http://www.biocrawler.com/encyclopedia/Shawangunk_Ridge"&gt;Shawangunk Ridge&lt;/a&gt; (pronounced "Shongum") is an imposing mountain ridge in southern Ulster County. It is often referred to as "The Gunks" by the many climbers who find its cliffs to be great climbing. I've read about at least one secluded area in the Gunks that  as far as anyone knows has not been previously documented as being known by anyone in modern or historical times.

Loren, if you can get more information on the exact place where it was found, I could see what the area is like next time I'm down there (which may not be for a while, though). If you prefer to do so privately, I can give you my email address.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live near there, so let me put it in some context for you. While I don&#8217;t know where in New Paltz this was found, it could be  relatively close to two other claims of Bigfoot sightings in Ulster County. I&#8217;m going to assume for our purposes that a New Paltz origin for this might be more likely to be in the western part of the town, closer to the caves in the Shawungunk Ridge.</p>
<p>An entry on BFRO relates a <a href="http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=8064">1985 sighting</a> by two women of a large hairy biped near the entrance to Ice Cave Mountain in Cragsmoor. This would be about a 10-12 mile hike from western New Paltz.</p>
<p>There is a report of an <a href="http://home.clara.net/rfthomas/news/seeing.html">alleged &#8220;baby&#8221; Bigfoot</a> found on a 1997 videotape shot near Lembo Lake in Modena, of Route 44/45. This would be only about 5 miles south of western New Paltz, and about a 10-12 miles hike also from Cragsmoor.</p>
<p>The <a href="http://www.biocrawler.com/encyclopedia/Shawangunk_Ridge">Shawangunk Ridge</a> (pronounced &#8220;Shongum&#8221;) is an imposing mountain ridge in southern Ulster County. It is often referred to as &#8220;The Gunks&#8221; by the many climbers who find its cliffs to be great climbing. I&#8217;ve read about at least one secluded area in the Gunks that  as far as anyone knows has not been previously documented as being known by anyone in modern or historical times.</p>
<p>Loren, if you can get more information on the exact place where it was found, I could see what the area is like next time I&#8217;m down there (which may not be for a while, though). If you prefer to do so privately, I can give you my email address.</p>
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		<title>By: Nachzehrer</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/bayer-stone-head/#comment-10941</link>
		<dc:creator>Nachzehrer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2006 22:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/eastern-carved-stone-head-what-is-it/#comment-10941</guid>
		<description>Some of the heads certainly are ape-like but I do think seals are a more likely possibility. Compare the most ape-like of the heads with &lt;a href="http://www.veganpeace.com/animal_facts/Seals.htm"&gt;this picture&lt;/a&gt; for example. There are the same "wide-awake" eyes, similar nostrils, even lines that could be whiskers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of the heads certainly are ape-like but I do think seals are a more likely possibility. Compare the most ape-like of the heads with <a href="http://www.veganpeace.com/animal_facts/Seals.htm">this picture</a> for example. There are the same &#8220;wide-awake&#8221; eyes, similar nostrils, even lines that could be whiskers.</p>
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		<title>By: Time213</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/bayer-stone-head/#comment-10940</link>
		<dc:creator>Time213</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2006 02:01:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You ask "What other types of stone heads exist within the archaeological record for the East?"

In the southeast, at Sequoya Caverns and Ellis Homestead, Valley Head, AL, at the end of one of the cave tours there is a large stone head on display that was found lying in a hay field some years back. It is the property of a Mr. Clark Byers. From what I can remember it is about two feet wide by a foot and a half or so high.

The stone head is flat and in the shape of a half circle and is carved with what appears to be a native american wearing a headress. It looks similar to the Mayan carvings in a way but more primitive.

I'll see if I can scan the pic I took of it this past summer and e-mail it to ya.

For more info on it, you can contact the owner of the land through &lt;a href="http://www.sequoyahcaverns.com/contact.htm"&gt;this link&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You ask &#8220;What other types of stone heads exist within the archaeological record for the East?&#8221;</p>
<p>In the southeast, at Sequoya Caverns and Ellis Homestead, Valley Head, AL, at the end of one of the cave tours there is a large stone head on display that was found lying in a hay field some years back. It is the property of a Mr. Clark Byers. From what I can remember it is about two feet wide by a foot and a half or so high.</p>
<p>The stone head is flat and in the shape of a half circle and is carved with what appears to be a native american wearing a headress. It looks similar to the Mayan carvings in a way but more primitive.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll see if I can scan the pic I took of it this past summer and e-mail it to ya.</p>
<p>For more info on it, you can contact the owner of the land through <a href="http://www.sequoyahcaverns.com/contact.htm">this link</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Scotty</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/bayer-stone-head/#comment-10939</link>
		<dc:creator>Scotty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 20:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/eastern-carved-stone-head-what-is-it/#comment-10939</guid>
		<description>Hi Nachzehrer,

No disrespect meant to the art historian you spoke to, but having worked with seals as a young man and having lived in a cabin on a west coast island and hunted them for food, I can't find any resemblance between seals and those masks. Perhaps the person you spoke with just didn't believe in the possible existence of Sasquatch and could only imagine the masks as representing seals. I managed to find a couple articles I found interesting, one concerning masks and another regarding carved stone heads.

In 1887, the paleontologist Othniel Charles Marsh wrote, "Among the many stone carvings (from the Columbia) were a number of heads, which so strongly resemble those of apes that the likeness at once presents itself." Around 1914, a Leutenant G.T. Eammons obtained one of two wood facemasks that were collected from the Tshimsian and Nisga's tribes on the coast of British Columbia. He described the mask as "a mythical being found in the woods, and called today as a monkey."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Nachzehrer,</p>
<p>No disrespect meant to the art historian you spoke to, but having worked with seals as a young man and having lived in a cabin on a west coast island and hunted them for food, I can&#8217;t find any resemblance between seals and those masks. Perhaps the person you spoke with just didn&#8217;t believe in the possible existence of Sasquatch and could only imagine the masks as representing seals. I managed to find a couple articles I found interesting, one concerning masks and another regarding carved stone heads.</p>
<p>In 1887, the paleontologist Othniel Charles Marsh wrote, &#8220;Among the many stone carvings (from the Columbia) were a number of heads, which so strongly resemble those of apes that the likeness at once presents itself.&#8221; Around 1914, a Leutenant G.T. Eammons obtained one of two wood facemasks that were collected from the Tshimsian and Nisga&#8217;s tribes on the coast of British Columbia. He described the mask as &#8220;a mythical being found in the woods, and called today as a monkey.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Nachzehrer</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/bayer-stone-head/#comment-10938</link>
		<dc:creator>Nachzehrer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 06:38:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Another possibility is that the head is a 19th century caricature of an Irishman. These were often grotesquely simian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another possibility is that the head is a 19th century caricature of an Irishman. These were often grotesquely simian.</p>
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		<title>By: mystery_man</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/bayer-stone-head/#comment-10937</link>
		<dc:creator>mystery_man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 03:54:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>That's a good point, Greywolf. I wonder though if it is a hoax, who is to say it was really kept as a doorstop for 50 years? They could have just said that to give the story more plausibility and make people believe exactly what you mentioned. I agree that it is going to be important to research the history of this thing and get some good hard data on it before proceeding or jumping to any conclusions. There is not a lot we can do with just these photos except speculate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a good point, Greywolf. I wonder though if it is a hoax, who is to say it was really kept as a doorstop for 50 years? They could have just said that to give the story more plausibility and make people believe exactly what you mentioned. I agree that it is going to be important to research the history of this thing and get some good hard data on it before proceeding or jumping to any conclusions. There is not a lot we can do with just these photos except speculate.</p>
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		<title>By: Bonehead_AZ</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/bayer-stone-head/#comment-10936</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonehead_AZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 03:04:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What we have is that this was reported to be found while digging a grave some 70 years ago.  I am assuming they were digging a grave for a human, not a pet.

I don't know much about dating ancient artifacts, but I do know a little bit about cemeteries.

Since this event took place in New York, it was likely the gravesite was in an existing cemetery, or in an area where people had been buried in the past.

I think it would be important to find out what type of cemetery it was and where it was located.  If it was in an area where slaves were buried years earlier, it could explain why this was simply "found" in the ground.  Some former slave cemeteries were later utilized by the general population, especially back East.  There was virtually no marking of slave gravesites.

In years past, all gravesites weren't plotted carefully, especially if it was used prior to the 1920's -- which is highly likely given the date of the find.  There are some cemeteries in NY that have been around for hundreds of years.

Not to be gruesome, today remains are often "discovered" while digging a new grave.  Sometimes this is due to the ground shifting, but other times it is because the cemetery has been in use for so many decades that it is not known where all the gravesites are located.

And we all know it has been tradition to bury items with the deceased.

I think it is highly likely that if this was indeed found in the ground in the 1930's, and it was at a cemetery, it was probably something that was buried with someone in the past.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What we have is that this was reported to be found while digging a grave some 70 years ago.  I am assuming they were digging a grave for a human, not a pet.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know much about dating ancient artifacts, but I do know a little bit about cemeteries.</p>
<p>Since this event took place in New York, it was likely the gravesite was in an existing cemetery, or in an area where people had been buried in the past.</p>
<p>I think it would be important to find out what type of cemetery it was and where it was located.  If it was in an area where slaves were buried years earlier, it could explain why this was simply &#8220;found&#8221; in the ground.  Some former slave cemeteries were later utilized by the general population, especially back East.  There was virtually no marking of slave gravesites.</p>
<p>In years past, all gravesites weren&#8217;t plotted carefully, especially if it was used prior to the 1920&#8217;s &#8212; which is highly likely given the date of the find.  There are some cemeteries in NY that have been around for hundreds of years.</p>
<p>Not to be gruesome, today remains are often &#8220;discovered&#8221; while digging a new grave.  Sometimes this is due to the ground shifting, but other times it is because the cemetery has been in use for so many decades that it is not known where all the gravesites are located.</p>
<p>And we all know it has been tradition to bury items with the deceased.</p>
<p>I think it is highly likely that if this was indeed found in the ground in the 1930&#8217;s, and it was at a cemetery, it was probably something that was buried with someone in the past.</p>
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