Comments on: Dzungarian Bare Knees

By: BugMO

BugMO — Sun, 10 Dec 2006 00:32:00 +0000

Are there any known primates that sleep in a position like the one above?

How do primates sleep? I know that orangutan make nests in the trees and gorillas make nests on the ground, but in what way do they sleep while in these nests? Also, do other primates like chimps, gorillas, and orangs have hairless knees? or hair missing from other places. And what is the hair pattern of apes? For example, Do they all have hairless faces, or do only a few have hairless faces. And what is the reason for not having hair in certain places?

By: DWA

DWA — Sat, 09 Dec 2006 16:45:47 +0000

One mistake in talking about any “unknown” animal is talking about what we “know” when we don’t know anything for sure, really. (Almost everything we “know” about dinosaurs, for example, is not knowledge but informed — more or less — speculation.)

I wouldn’t even go farther than “probable” in saying we have primates here (although the evidence seems to point clearly enough in that direction). Even though it may be awkward to always prefix everything about these animals with a “weasel word,” it’s wise at least to make the blanket statement, up front, that no one really knows until a specimen is in hand.

By: Loren Coleman

Loren Coleman — Sat, 09 Dec 2006 15:57:52 +0000

Have to agree with you kittenz.

I prefer the use of “hominoids” and thus began this blog there, with a link to a blog that goes through the difference between “hominids” and “hominoids” the way I use them.

Of course, I used “hominids” with regard to Khakhlov’s report, out of respect for the Russian, because that was his characterization.

It seems clear to me, at least, we are dealing with hominoids.

By: kittenz

kittenz — Sat, 09 Dec 2006 15:45:15 +0000

I believe that it is a mistake to refer to unknown primates as hominids, without more information. We are not even certain that they are primates. The evidence that they are primates is rather overwhelming so at least some of them probably are. Some or all of them may be hominids, but if we label them as such without better evidence, we prejudice ourselves to look at all the evidence from that viewpoint, which may be inaccurate.

By: mystery_man

mystery_man — Sat, 09 Dec 2006 15:05:29 +0000

The position we see in the picture sure does not seem like a natural resting position for any creature of this type. I would tend to agree with the above that it is more of a defensive posture although this is speculation. Even humans tend to have rough knees or if your legs are hairy, the hair might be thinner on the knees. I would guess that the marked bareness of the knees (to the point where is is included in representations of the creature) may be due to everyday wear and tear from foraging, etc. I would like to know what other accounts there may be of this sleeping position. After all, maybe it was just a personal quirk of this particular specimen?

By: lastensugle

lastensugle — Sat, 09 Dec 2006 14:19:16 +0000

I find it really hard to believe any hominid would be comfortable sleeping in this position. It looks more like a protective position to me, which could surely be the case if one was held captive. Baring ones teeth and screeching when being approached sounds like a frightened creature to me, I’d lie down in a fetal position too.

By: moregon

moregon — Sat, 09 Dec 2006 04:03:36 +0000

I would think another possibility could be due to other reasons it may spend time on it’s knees as well. Drinking water, digging for insects, or digging up tubers fungus, or other underground food items. Maybe crawling in and out of dens or caves. Or maybe it’s a normal hair pattern for some species i.e. hair covered buttocks on some but not all apes.