But I’m still a skeptic on this question.

I consider the existence of the sasquatch and the yeti, and maybe a couple of other hairy hominoids as well, not only plausible but very possible, I might almost say likely (although that’s a subjective assessment, with no percentage behind it). But I can understand an irrational response to the film. I can understand people whose faith in scientific coverage of the planet is such that they could actually put a guy in that suit rather than just accept that we might need to search here for something that’s evaded the net – maybe as much through our own unwillingness to accept it as possible, and cast the net in that direction, as through its own evasiveness.

Personally, I don’t think we need to postulate anything but the one animal that is on that film. Patty’s behavior has been seen many times, by many people encountering what appeared to be lone animals. Skeptics think it needs to be rationalized; it does not. In fact it falls squarely in the center of expected behavior for lots of animals we know about. I personally don’t think that that sasquatch is a social animal at all; if it mirrors another primate’s behavior in that regard, I’d go with the orangutan before, say, the chimpanzee. I’d say that our chances of getting scientific confirmation of a social critter that big would be very high; if the sas exists, I think its solitary nature has helped it elude us.

But of course I don’t know, nor do any of us, yet.

Speaking of doing one’s research, have you ever read up on any skeptical approaches done towards the film, or is it only material that fits into your own notion of what Patty should be? Have you researched anything that could perhaps disagree with your own assumptions? By “do yer research”, do you mean only that which advocates the film as genuine? You’ve obviously become familiar with scientists who think Patty is real, but have you read any research by equally qualified scientists who disagree? Have you considered their ideas or written them off out of hand? If so, how can you claim to be in a position of open mindedness or make accusations of ignorance? I’m pretty sure that studying up on only one side of the equation is not the best way to get to the bottom of the truth. I’d say do your homework all around to get a feel for the whole picture.

Anyway, you are right, the PG footage IS one of the best pieces of evidence. Nobody has been really saying that it isn’t. There are many things that point to it as being real, including all of the good observations that you brought up. I do not dispute that at all. But I am not completely convinced to the point of accepting it as a holotype by which all other research should rely upon. I’d say to you keep open some scientific objectivity with regards to the footage. There is a chance it is real, but if it is not, all assumptions based on it will be falsified.

I guess any biologist who wants to get to the bottom of the truth without making too many assumptions must be “ignorant” for not completely and enthusiastically embracing this new species based on the PG footage? Please.

Thanks for sparing me, if just this one time. [Smile].

Remember, though, my conjecture is based on a starting point: it is a hoax. If we look at it from that angle, then certain things fall into place as to how to understand the image Patterson presented. If you take a different starting point, my approach is less explanatory.

I did forget to mention that I think Patterson honesty believed that the Roe and Ostman accounts were true. If a hoax, he made his film to reflect Roe and Ostman’s animal, as close as the modified suit would allow.

And once you’ve calmed down, get to the library and do some real research! No sense arguing about the P/G film if you haven’t done yer homework. Round here we call that ‘ignorance’.

Go read Meldrum, Green, Coleman, Krantz, Murphy, Powell et al for hard scientific evidence. See the DVD evidence for yourself. Then you can agree or not. But don’t be ign-o-rant about it.

The 1967 P/G film remains the best film evidence we have of a large bipedal non-human primate living in the wilds of North America. This is why Loren and BFers keep posting it – to remind us and the scientific community to look again. Other than the Zapruder film, no other film footage in recent times has had such thorough analysis and scrutiny. The film has never been adequately debunked as a fraud. Those who claimed to have hoaxed it (RIP) failed to produce any evidence, let alone a costume – yet people believe them. I believe Jane Goodall, Jeff Meldrum, Grover Krantz and the scientists who have actually done the hard work here.

Even the peculiar gait and pelvic movement of Patty has been computer-plotted and analyzed, and found to be consistent with other sightings and footprints: long 3 to 4′ strides, single-file footprints, not side-to-side like ours. A human being simply cannot move, walk and turn as Patty does (yes, it’s been tried). Then there’s that mid-tarsal ridge and the longitudinal dermal ridges (like fingerprints) found in many footprint casts. Plenty of evidence if you want it.

Now then… watching the film again, I had a new thought related to Sasquatch behavior and sightings: what if Patty, walking away so nonchalant, wasn’t the real show that day up on Bluff Creek? What if there was other Sasquatch activity going on there before Patterson & Gimlin literally stumbled upon her? What if Patty was only a diversion? The two horsemen come around the bend and, along with their horses, react somewhat loudly to a large hairy thing at creekside. Horses buck, guns and camera come out…

Watch the entire P/G film from start to finish. Patty, startled, first heads away into the closest forest cover, then turns and heads right, along the creek, leading Patterson & Gimlin’s camera along with her. She does take her sweet time about it, almost as if to say, “Over here – follow me”… Why?

These aren’t lone wolves here, they’re intelligent primates and likely foraging in groups. Many sightings mention more than one Sasquatch in the field. And like many sentient critters, they often move in a formation: one in the lead, 2 or 3 on the sides or behind. Watching the ‘Jungles’ episode from the excellent BBC ‘Planet Earth’ series, I noticed other large primates doing this. In the Congo sequence, as a troop of chimpanzees prepare to wage an attack on a neighboring tribe, they move single file as 1 or 2 chimps hover out on the sides. Many animals do this classic protective field formation, especially when foraging/hunting. Those raptors did it in ‘Jurassic Park’. There’s a military term for it, yes?

Ask yourself this: why would a solitary female be out foraging down at the creek all by her lonesome? Why would we find a lone creature in such an open, vulnerable space in daylight? Why the almost-casual stroll away? And what was really going on above and behind Patterson & Gimlin that day? Others have searched for images of other BFs in the woods above Patty – methinks there’s something more here than meets the eye (or camera). Maybe those horses were on to something… something bigger than Patty.

Consider the mental state and fatigue of Patterson & Gimlin late in the day. They’re out all day, looking for Sasquatch footprints to film on 16mm. They’re probably not looking for an encounter (but brought rifles), and they’re tired from riding all day with few results. Late in the afternoon, they come around a bend and their horses go wild with fear. They see something incredible. One rider gets thrown, stumbles, grabs the camera and starts filming. The other rider holds onto the horses and his gun. In their panicked, disoriented state, how aware can they be of other activity in their surroundings? It’s all they can do to keep the horses and film what they can. The camera follows Patty up a canyon until the film runs out – !? If you were gonna pull a hoax, you’d make damn sure you had plenty of film. More footage = more bucks.

I’m thinking Patty was out with her clan getting fish and foraging along the creek. Local logging and truck noise had frightened or displaced them, so here they were at Bluff Creek in broad daylight. Maybe Patty was caught by surprise. If there was young ‘uns about, the others could have hustled them away while Patty created a diversion, only to rendezvous later up the canyon. Or – Patty and a young ‘un were at the creek when they were surprised, they scattered, and Patty strolled on into history.

One reason the film looks weird or fake is that we have no point of reference. We don’t know of any other true bipedal primates besides ourselves, so what is that? Many well-armed witnesses have said they couldn’t shoot what they saw because it ‘looked too human’ – heck, most folks wouldn’t shoot a chimpanzee either. Local tribes often thought of Sasquatch as simply a hairy tribe off in the woods, albeit smelly, scary and one to be avoided. If this looks like a human in a suit to you, congratulations – you’ve just recognized another hairier member of our primate family. The fact that it looks almost human is the very thing that warrants more investigation.

I propose that Sasquatch is a highly-developed, intelligent, strong, bipedal primate, surviving in the wilds and clever enough to hide from humans. They have howls, calls and maybe a language, they throw tantrums, use rudimentary tools, are communal, live in hidden shelters and are opportunistic omnivores like us. They may use their putrid scent as identifying markers, much like blind mole rats and rodents will roll in a ‘midden’ pile composed of their own urine and droppings in order to mark their own clan. They breast-feed and care for their young, and they bury their dead (as do some apes), which is why we don’t find ‘dead Bigfoots’ just lying around… freezer or not!

No solid evidence in the Patterson & Gimlin film? I’ve seen this film my whole life, yet only lately realized that the figure in the film was a female. I always just saw the primate aspect of it. Why would a couple of NorCal cowboys in 1967 bother to build a female Sasquatch costume, make such a lousy, wobbly film and then run out of film? You’d think these boys would have at least given Patty some giant hooters for their trouble! Even the FAKE ‘Alien Autopsy’ video had production values.

Then there’s the stocky, muscular body, the sagittal crest with fur extending down her back, that ape-like rump, those long arms, and non-opposable thumbs on big hands. The long face, pointed head, low jaw and lack of a neck is consistent with other sightings, too – even the Yeti’s. If you watch films of mountain gorillas, they turn their heads with the torso exactly the same, as their jaw nearly rests on their chest. Even a human contortionist can’t do this.

Anytime someone makes a hoax video or TV commercial using a Bigfoot costume, they always overdo it to a ridiculous degree. Even the most serious Sasquatch horror flick is over the top creature-wise. In poker it’s called a ‘tell’. Too obvious = fake. Yet here we have just a large hairy ape, walking upright, swinging its arms and turning its torso to stare back at us.

It’s too simple. It’s less a monster than a possibility. Bipedal ape? Why not?

I think the Patterson & Gimlin film stands the test of time, and is among our best evidence for Sasquatch to date. But it’s just the tip of the iceberg, as evidence goes. Do yer research!

Not to go totally to town on everything in your post; we have gone this way before.

But a legitimate alternative to what you did there is to presume that Roe saw a real animal; that Patterson’s drawn reconstructions were based on reports of that animal and other animals of the same or closely related species; that the sasquatch is an animal that combines traits in a peculiar way, as any other species does (some female gorillas do have sagittal crests, as that seems based on size and not sex); and that he and Gimlin simply saw the same animal others had, as one would expect them to do when they went out and looked for it.

Oh. I saw my sasquatch tracks on a bed of pine needles. High Siskiyou, Northern CA, 1986. I really have to tone my wife down when this comes up. She doesn’t hedge at all; it’s a sasquatch.

I don’t consider any sasquatch fake “implausible” as the real thing. I just don’t consider something that appears, on its face, to be a staged event with a person in a suit is a good bet as the real thing is all. I base this on lots of reports of an animal that, although it looks reminiscent in some ways of a human, is quite clearly, to the observer, not one. “Poor bet, in my opinion, given other possibilities” is quite different from “implausible.”

And a fake, even of P/G, is in no way “implausible.” It’s just that, considering what it would have entailed, I consider it a “poor bet, in my opinion, given other possibilities” including which is an animal for which there are many reports of something similar to what is in P/G.

Were there no cases of anyone else seeing anything else even remotely like what is in that film, then all of a sudden a fake of P/G becomes, to me, a much better bet. It’s just that, given what I know, it’s really much simpler to accept P/G as an uncatalogued animal than as a fake.

Although proof would be better, and I’m still waiting for that.

I’m an agnostic when it comes to bigfoot, leaning seriously towards doubt. I can understand the bigfoot agnostic who leans toward belief (after all, there IS evidence in the form of tracks, sightings, etc.) I do take issue, however, with the absolutist in either skeptic or advocate camps. Hence, the person who says with certainty that bigfoot does not exist is dogmatic, in my view. Likewise, the person who is sure bigfoot is real is also dogmatic.

To get back to Patterson’s film. Advocates look at the film subject and ponder: are we looking at giganto, or an evolved homo erectus, or a relic human, etc.? Such an approach takes the reality of the film subject as a given, for the purpose of argument. I would like to begin speculation from the other end of the controversy. I would like to begin with the proposition that the film is a hoax. What then, can we learn from the film? Why did Patterson give us this particular image? What may have he been thinking? Where did he get his ideas?

First, we must remember that his film was made in 1967. The most publicized accounts of sasquatch/bigfoot at that time were the Roe, Ostman and Ruby Creek stories. These stories were publicised especially by Ivan Sanderson in “men’s entertainment” magazines.
Patterson no doubt read about these accounts.

1. The Patterson film is virtually a reenactment of the Roe account, down to a sasquatch with large female breasts, casual walking away, and a quick look back.

2. A feature (I mentioned in a post above) suggests upturned bangs (in some renderings), a feature of Ostman’s bigfoot.

3. The bulky looking region where the head and upper back meet, perhaps bunched muscles, seems to visually copy to a degree the True Magazine imaginative illustration of Sanderson’s article of the Roe account rather than Roe’s supervised sketch. Also, Patterson’s film subject has a stooped walk, also more in line with the artist’s interpretation in the magazine, rather than Roe’s sketch which shows an upright sasquatch.

Also, the bunched hair/muscles on the upper back and near the neck could help obscure the turn of the head, which otherwise might reveal a human neck or a phony looking slack and fold of a costume.

4. The famous crested head of Patterson’s subject is not exactly like either sketches made by Roe or Ostman. I suggest this feature is a by-product of a gorilla suit modified and used to make the film. The much (here) ridiculed Long book has a photo of the Morris mass-produced gorilla suit and to me the similarity between the top of the crested head on the film subject and the same on the gorilla suit are remarkable.

5. The bulk of the costume? (Remember, for the sake of argument, we are assuming Patterson’s subject IS a man in a costume.) I think Patterson necessarily had to have a bulky sasquatch (at odds with the more slender Roe and Ostman sasquatches). He realized that a trimmer costume would look fake. He would be right: we all remember the Ivan Marx phony looking sasquatch, comparative skinny as it was.
Also, Patterson’s sasquatch looked a lot like some renderings of the yeti, and perhaps he thought this was passable. (After all, wasn’t sasquatch “America’s Abominable Snowman”?)

6. The location of the film also tells us something.
A washed out creek bottom would be an easier and more advantageous place to leave (plant) tracks (to confirm the film) than other places (like a floor of pine needles).

7. The admixture of various traits found in the Patterson subject has puzzled some. The saggital crest of a gorilla, the pendulous breasts of a female human primate, the long striding legs of a human, the hair covered body, the humanlike feet and apelike long arms, the feet padded like a bear’s, etc. have caused serious doubt in some folks mind as to the reality of this subject as a true zoological reality. So, why did Patterson flub it? He didn’t know any better.

8. The subject has silver tipped hair (according to Patterson). This is either because some eyewitness accounts included this description, or else it was a nice touch and a way to make it seem like a real, familiar primate. (Lowland gorilla anyone?)

And 9. Patterson’s subject has a butt, a big butt. Why? Certainly we don’t see that feature in the Roe sketch. Perhaps this addition was built into the gorilla suit and couldn’t be eliminated, or else it was an add on to disguise the human in the suit a bit more.

The above is admitted conjecture. It is simply an attempt to deconstruct Patterson’s film by taking as a starting point the idea the film is a hoax.

I believe I haven’t seen evidence that proves my belief.

I believe a huge primate (as we know them) cannot live, breed and die, yet go undetected and undocumented (body or legit picture/video) in the lower 48 states.

I believe the apes in the Congo are located in very dense
lush vegetation living amongst a much less populas and backwards type people.

I believe the apes of the Congo go undetected because of the sparseness of human population and thick rugged terrain along with stealth.

Having said that….How do I justify my Belief?

I believe the creature known as Bigfoot lives in a environment like the apes in the Congo, which can support a huge primate.

I believe the only way a Bigfoot like creature can exist in the lower
48 is that he must be a type of ALIEN with invisibility power(something like Predator) or some type of inter-dimensional parallel universe type being.

I believe much more that the creature probably lives in an environment like the great apes rather then being Alien or Inter-dimensional/parallel universe
type being.

I believe somebody (knows little of Bigfoot) will prove Bigfoot proof positive sheerly by accident. Unlike the Georgia Hoaxers. OR by someone who’s overall all consuming obsession wills his way to discovering Bigfoot. Not someone in between.

I believe a BigFoot exists somewhere in the World