Comments on: One Day to 10,000 BC

By: dogu4

dogu4 — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 16:27:35 +0000

Kittenz: Of course the current land-users are interested in their economic interests (continued hard times with the occasional bumper crop of cows) which are currently tied-into their current mode of land use patterns, but that can change and already a more holistic and ecologically minded attitude is being seen. Also, the land upon which much of the commecial grazing takes place (the majority of the land, by the way) is public land and as such it is legally subject to laws which can and infact are mandated to recognize uses other than the just the current grazing practices, which have been characterized as a form of welfare for cattle owners. The economic and ecologic picture really isn’t all that defensible as more and more cattle production moves from small cattle ranches on subsidized public lands (one cow per several acre) to bigger more profitable operations (manyl cows per acre and less overgrazing and better more economical use of water). If you really study the southwest, in particular the Basin and Range, you can hardly imagine a less productive land for cattle, animals which evolved in a land covered in grass most of the year, not overgrazed arid basins and water scarce pinyon and juniper forests or sub-alpine meadows for the three months a year they’re not snowed in. The west is becoming emptier. Mechanization is reducing the total number of workers needed on a ranch. When I worked in the basin and range I’d see the kind of impacts and relatively low enonomic return for both the land-owner (the US taxpayer and the legislated subsidies, by the way) and for the rancher themselves, who were always complaining about how hard it was to raise cattle and always in fear of water shortage (oddly amplified by the poor land use they practices where their cattle actually caused local water table collapse) and often thought in contrast how beautiful the land was and what an appeal to people it would be if it were repopulated with a few herds of pronghorn, numbering in the tens of thousands as they used to be before being killed-off enmass and buried in open pits as was the practice…instead of seeng them as competitors for sparse grass they should have been seen as an expression of a North American Serengetti. Cattle ranchers would complain about the loss of their jlivelihoods and talk about their long traditions as if 150 years was a long tradition compared to the native practices that had maintained the land prior to the introduction of european disease and other abuses. It seemed to some that if they wanted better jobs out on the range they’d be better off working as megafauna conservation biologists and wildlife guides leading visitors from all over the world to see the phenomenon of cheetahs and pronghorns, bison and lions against the backdrop of Basin and Range landscape. If we’re gonna spend our tax money on subsidizing economic activity on public lands it should at least have a long term sustainable goal and a wild biosystem is a better bet than the current situation. Do you think the people around Yellowstone would like to see the Hayden Valley turned into cattle grazing? Yellowstone lake drained to water a feedlot? I doubt it if they wanted to make money off of people willing to pay good money to see it the way it is.
The tide is turning and it’s always darkest before the dawn. I have faith that when properly presented in a way that allowed for the transition to a better way (I wouldn’t dream of doing to the european ranchers what they did so abruptly to the original occupants) a re-vitalized and fully integrated complement of big animals including proxies of those now extinct due to cosmic accident in 10 thousand years ago, will be seen as the best and most economically rewarding use of the naturally sustaining legacy we lost through manifestly short sighted goals in such a short amount of time.
But sure, small examples on public and private land is a great way to start. I notice that Josh Donlan, the primary exponent of this process has begun blogging over at shiftingbaselines.com and his well thought out and realistic perspective on this would be one I suspect you’d appreciate. Cheers.

By: kittenz

kittenz — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 15:50:51 +0000

dogu4,

“Rewilding” the American West is a great idea, but I don’t think it will ever happen, except maybe in a very limited way on privately owned land.

Ranchers and sheepherders are already screaming about the reintroduction of a few wolves, and for centuries, “wild” (feral) horses and burros have been considered vermin by those same groups. I can only imagine the hullaballoo that would result from a serious effort to bring in lions, cheetahs, elephants, camels, etc.

Don’t get me wrong; I’m all for it. I just don’t think the idea will fly, given the clout of the special interets involved.

By: Bob Michaels

Bob Michaels — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 00:53:38 +0000

Review in the NY Post by Lou Lunenick, 10000 BC is a Mammoth Stinker rated one star.

By: cryptidsrus

cryptidsrus — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 20:55:32 +0000

KITTENZ:

I’m with you on this one. I just want to see how realistic the creatures are.

DOGU4:

You make a good point.

I agree it will probably be “dumb.” I mean, this is Roland Emmerich, Mr. Independence Day!!!
(BTW, for those liked ID, YOU may have liked it, I didn’t—sorry.)
Emmerich’s movies are always more interesting for the special effects than for anything resembling good plot development or three-dimensional charactrizations.
It IS a glorified B movie—but so what?

Still cannot wait.

LOOOVED those Saber-toothed tigers!!!

By: dogu4

dogu4 — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 20:17:56 +0000

I find anything, fanciful or not, that brings our attention to the incredible period in human and natural history during the late Pleistocene, a worthwile effort. Ironic that with the emphasis on human impacts on once abundant megafauna we now are confronted with hard evidence as to the real cause; cosmic impact at 12.9KYA. Never the less, I hope others will discover the very serious reasoning behind efforts to reestablish, using moden proxies, something resembling the biologic legacy now missing from the northern continents’ inventory of incredible animals. The cheetahs havent tasted pronghorn antelope now for almost 12 thousand years and it’s about time.

By: CamperGuy

CamperGuy — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 03:45:19 +0000

Young people may become interested in some of the “monster” animals and possibly an interest into …oh say Sasquatch.
I’m looking forward to the movie. Hope they have a geat opening.

By: kittenz

kittenz — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 01:59:19 +0000

I don’t care how far-fetched it may be! I don’t care if the acting is wooden. Nor if the science and/or history is depicted with, um, artistic license.

I just want to see how well they have done those animals. I’m already nit-picking a bit (well, a lot lol) to my friends about the cats, but even though I don’t think they are scientifically accurate, they look awesome!

By: helgarde

helgarde — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 00:28:46 +0000

It is a glorified b movie!

Which means it will rock!

Of COURSE it is dumb! Sheesh.

But just because a movie is dumb doesn’t mean it can’t be fun.

Look at Bubba Ho-Tep.

By: Cryptid Hunt21

Cryptid Hunt21 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 22:28:11 +0000

This film will sure inspire me in my field for my upcoming King Kong film and my future Cryptid Hunt cryptozoology show!

By: plant girl

plant girl — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:27:52 +0000

May the forse (sp) be with us all! Sorry I don’t get a chance to say that everyday, just every other.