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	<title>Comments on: Rethinking Lake Monster Traditions</title>
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	<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptotourism/meurger-gagnon/</link>
	<description>for Bigfoot, Lake Monsters, Sea Serpents and More</description>
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		<title>By: Aldebaran</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptotourism/meurger-gagnon/comment-page-1/#comment-79034</link>
		<dc:creator>Aldebaran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Apr 2012 19:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=44735#comment-79034</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Loren,

Could you (or anyone else who is familiar with the matter) please provide more information about the disagreement between Meurger and Gagnon, or a reference to where it is discussed in more detail? 

I was completely unaware of any rift between the two men until I read this post, although I did find it odd that the lake monsters book cover reads &quot;by Michel Meurger with Claude Gagnon&quot;, with the latter&#039;s name underneath the former&#039;s, and in smaller type.

Thanks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Loren,</p>
<p>Could you (or anyone else who is familiar with the matter) please provide more information about the disagreement between Meurger and Gagnon, or a reference to where it is discussed in more detail? </p>
<p>I was completely unaware of any rift between the two men until I read this post, although I did find it odd that the lake monsters book cover reads &#8220;by Michel Meurger with Claude Gagnon&#8221;, with the latter&#8217;s name underneath the former&#8217;s, and in smaller type.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Night Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptotourism/meurger-gagnon/comment-page-1/#comment-72492</link>
		<dc:creator>Night Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Aug 2011 23:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=44735#comment-72492</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with cropster that there seems to be “some psychological/sociological process are at work here” in regards to alleged cryptid sightings but it should be noted that in his latest book that seems to be the least favoured and least explored option for the Yowie behind the flesh-and-blood and paranormal hypotheses. Yet I disagree with his assessment on the role of folklore has in explaining the major cryptozoological mysteries. Folklore encompasses the beliefs, knowledge, stories, and customs practiced and passed along by informal sources (family, friends, community groups, etc) from within the wider culture and, as such, exerts a tremendous influence on the way individuals interpret and relate their experiences. 

People have always enjoyed spinning a yarn and there is ample evidence going back at least hundreds of years that this is the case in many historical accounts now widely perceived to be possibly cryptozoological in nature. In the modern setting this trend has continued and even expanded within the new methods of communication (note the number of fakes surfacing year after year on the internet). Furthermore, the majority of alleged cryptid reports come from the realms of amateur researchers and their associated social circles each with their own often intersecting versions of folklore. Fakery, particularly within this amateur research movement, seems to be an integral, yet often overlooked, part of the phenomenon. Indeed, the largest single contributor to cropster’s latest book on the Yowie (2006) falsified claims and evidence in 2009 – including casting and presenting the distorted impression of his own foot as that of a Yowie! Often, the appearance of sincerity among those claiming cryptid encounters is just that – the APPEARANCE of sincerity. Once a person can successfully fake that they have it made. It is all part and parcel of the performance of storytelling among a sub-culture of people brought up with a fascination for the “unknown” and a distinct love of embellishment and self-aggrandisement. Is that not folklore-in-action? How many other cryptid claims are of a similar nature? My own investigations into cryptozoology (particularly the Yowie) indicate that it is quite widespread than most popular authors would care to admit.

Cryptozoology seems to be much more of a human phenomenon rather than a biological one. The study of folklore, while obviously not able to explain all cases, has the potential to provide some tremendous insights into why people do what they do and believe what they believe. Given the lack of objective supporting evidence (outside of misidentifications and fakes), isn’t that the essence of the mystery?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with cropster that there seems to be “some psychological/sociological process are at work here” in regards to alleged cryptid sightings but it should be noted that in his latest book that seems to be the least favoured and least explored option for the Yowie behind the flesh-and-blood and paranormal hypotheses. Yet I disagree with his assessment on the role of folklore has in explaining the major cryptozoological mysteries. Folklore encompasses the beliefs, knowledge, stories, and customs practiced and passed along by informal sources (family, friends, community groups, etc) from within the wider culture and, as such, exerts a tremendous influence on the way individuals interpret and relate their experiences. </p>
<p>People have always enjoyed spinning a yarn and there is ample evidence going back at least hundreds of years that this is the case in many historical accounts now widely perceived to be possibly cryptozoological in nature. In the modern setting this trend has continued and even expanded within the new methods of communication (note the number of fakes surfacing year after year on the internet). Furthermore, the majority of alleged cryptid reports come from the realms of amateur researchers and their associated social circles each with their own often intersecting versions of folklore. Fakery, particularly within this amateur research movement, seems to be an integral, yet often overlooked, part of the phenomenon. Indeed, the largest single contributor to cropster’s latest book on the Yowie (2006) falsified claims and evidence in 2009 – including casting and presenting the distorted impression of his own foot as that of a Yowie! Often, the appearance of sincerity among those claiming cryptid encounters is just that – the APPEARANCE of sincerity. Once a person can successfully fake that they have it made. It is all part and parcel of the performance of storytelling among a sub-culture of people brought up with a fascination for the “unknown” and a distinct love of embellishment and self-aggrandisement. Is that not folklore-in-action? How many other cryptid claims are of a similar nature? My own investigations into cryptozoology (particularly the Yowie) indicate that it is quite widespread than most popular authors would care to admit.</p>
<p>Cryptozoology seems to be much more of a human phenomenon rather than a biological one. The study of folklore, while obviously not able to explain all cases, has the potential to provide some tremendous insights into why people do what they do and believe what they believe. Given the lack of objective supporting evidence (outside of misidentifications and fakes), isn’t that the essence of the mystery?</p>
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		<title>By: flame821</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptotourism/meurger-gagnon/comment-page-1/#comment-72162</link>
		<dc:creator>flame821</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:43:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=44735#comment-72162</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If they were all truly folkloric then how can they explain people without connections to each other seeing basically the same things for centuries?   If they were truly folklore based I would expect to see more differences based on the native/local myths and mores. 

Water monsters are often more folkloric, but look at the huge differences in descriptions which varies by area and culture.  Old Meg, Kappa, serpents, dragons, relic dinos, nymphs, extraordinarily large fish, mermaids, kelpies.  THESE sorts of things would lead me to believe folklore as a basis to explain drownings and people gone missing as so often happens near large bodies of water.  (before I get hammered I am not claiming ALL water monsters are myths or folklore, but quite a few have NO evidence to support a physical entity at all)

However when we start talking about the &#039;bigfoot&#039; things get a bit more odd.  All the bipedal &#039;myths&#039; are basically the same description of the same animal (or so it seems) with precious few variations.  The names the indigenous give the animal is different from spot to spot but the eyewitness accounts are remarkably similar. 

It is interesting to see the change in perspective and even more amazing to be able to practically pinpoint the year in which Fortean and Cryptozoology went from one mindset to a wholly different mindset.  Book of the Damned was a completely different tone from what we read now.  Makes you wonder what the fields would be like if this shift in thinking hadn&#039;t occurred.   I mostly remember Yuppies, Greed is good, and New Wave/Hair Band Music from this period of time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If they were all truly folkloric then how can they explain people without connections to each other seeing basically the same things for centuries?   If they were truly folklore based I would expect to see more differences based on the native/local myths and mores. </p>
<p>Water monsters are often more folkloric, but look at the huge differences in descriptions which varies by area and culture.  Old Meg, Kappa, serpents, dragons, relic dinos, nymphs, extraordinarily large fish, mermaids, kelpies.  THESE sorts of things would lead me to believe folklore as a basis to explain drownings and people gone missing as so often happens near large bodies of water.  (before I get hammered I am not claiming ALL water monsters are myths or folklore, but quite a few have NO evidence to support a physical entity at all)</p>
<p>However when we start talking about the &#8216;bigfoot&#8217; things get a bit more odd.  All the bipedal &#8216;myths&#8217; are basically the same description of the same animal (or so it seems) with precious few variations.  The names the indigenous give the animal is different from spot to spot but the eyewitness accounts are remarkably similar. </p>
<p>It is interesting to see the change in perspective and even more amazing to be able to practically pinpoint the year in which Fortean and Cryptozoology went from one mindset to a wholly different mindset.  Book of the Damned was a completely different tone from what we read now.  Makes you wonder what the fields would be like if this shift in thinking hadn&#8217;t occurred.   I mostly remember Yuppies, Greed is good, and New Wave/Hair Band Music from this period of time.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: cropster</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptotourism/meurger-gagnon/comment-page-1/#comment-72158</link>
		<dc:creator>cropster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cryptomundo.com/?p=44735#comment-72158</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Really interesting post Loren, covering a lot of stuff. I&#039;ve always liked Meurger&#039;s book, but I think anyone that argues that the major cryptozoological mysteries (Bigfoot, Yeti, Lake Monsters, Yowies, Mystery Big cats) can be explained purely in &#039;folkloric&#039; terms is just kidding themselves. I&#039;ve always believed that a minority of mystery creature categories are almost certainly zoological (e.g. Orange Pendek, maybe the Yeti) but (and I&#039;m confessing here even as a  co-author of a book on the Yowie) that I&#039;ve NEVER been convinced that the major cryptid mysteries are explainable in zoological terms. I think other processes are involved. Its just logical that if these animals existed in a purely physical sense that the Yowie, Bigfoot, Loch Ness Monster etc would have been clearly photographed, killed and categorised by now. By saying that, I&#039;m not discounting the hundreds of eyewitness reports I&#039;ve followed up and the dozens of eyewitnesses I&#039;ve spoken to personally - something far more real and immediate is happening here. And to be clear, I&#039;m not throwing the &#039;paranormal&#039; explanation into the ring. My feeling is that some psychological/sociological process are at work here that we don&#039;t understand - something powerful enough to generate experiences that can influence groups of eyewitnesses. Whatever it is, its more complex and sophisticated than just &#039;folklore&#039;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really interesting post Loren, covering a lot of stuff. I&#8217;ve always liked Meurger&#8217;s book, but I think anyone that argues that the major cryptozoological mysteries (Bigfoot, Yeti, Lake Monsters, Yowies, Mystery Big cats) can be explained purely in &#8216;folkloric&#8217; terms is just kidding themselves. I&#8217;ve always believed that a minority of mystery creature categories are almost certainly zoological (e.g. Orange Pendek, maybe the Yeti) but (and I&#8217;m confessing here even as a  co-author of a book on the Yowie) that I&#8217;ve NEVER been convinced that the major cryptid mysteries are explainable in zoological terms. I think other processes are involved. Its just logical that if these animals existed in a purely physical sense that the Yowie, Bigfoot, Loch Ness Monster etc would have been clearly photographed, killed and categorised by now. By saying that, I&#8217;m not discounting the hundreds of eyewitness reports I&#8217;ve followed up and the dozens of eyewitnesses I&#8217;ve spoken to personally &#8211; something far more real and immediate is happening here. And to be clear, I&#8217;m not throwing the &#8216;paranormal&#8217; explanation into the ring. My feeling is that some psychological/sociological process are at work here that we don&#8217;t understand &#8211; something powerful enough to generate experiences that can influence groups of eyewitnesses. Whatever it is, its more complex and sophisticated than just &#8216;folklore&#8217;.</p>
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