I think you make a very good point about Horibe going back and viewing the carcass again. I’ve often wondered that myself. Why wouldn’t he if he was so sure that what he saw was real? Why wouldn’t he go back and check it out if it had disturbed him so much, or for that matter take any kind of evidence away from the encounter?

Maybe he tried and the corpse was gone, but I think it probably boils down to what we’ve already established; that it was wartime, he wasn’t a scientist, and this wasn’t his mission. Maybe he wanted to go back and take a look under better viewing conditions, but his duties prevented him. He wasn’t there for studying animals, and probably had his plate full with other responsibilities.

He may very much have wanted to. You were a sergeant, and I’m not sure if it was during wartime or not, but I’m sure if the locals showed you something that scared you silly, you’d want to take another look if it was at all possible. However, you’d probably have other duties to attend to and it might be that that carcass you saw would have to remain sitting there eating away at the back of your mind.

In the end, as much as this may have disturbed him, Horibe had a job to do, he was there to wage war, not study mysterious animals. This was likely just a diversion and a distraction from his true objective.

What did he see? What would he have seen if he had gone back to see it again in better conditions? I wish I knew.

Anyway, this has been a great discussion. This is why I post these things. I want people who have an interest to question things, put out their own ideas, to offer insights. You have done a fine job of that. I want people to give input, consider this stuff, and to throw in their two cents as you have done here. If I have made you or anyone else think deeply on these issues at all, then that is fulfilling to me and makes it worth it for me to keep writing about these mysteries.

I appreciate you taking the time to come out and discuss this. I thank you for engaging me on this and for your good input.

I was trying to use an albeit very simplified illustrative example of how a geographically isolated population of animals, in this case primates, might evolve to their environment, in this instance adapting to take advantage of a new food resource that may lead to the evolution of aquatic traits. I am not in any way talking about non firsthand teaching or spontaneous transference of knowledge to other populations across boundaries or really anything whatsoever to do with the Hundredth Monkey effect.

As a matter of fact, I am saying the exact opposite in that this would be an isolated population of primates evolving in this fashion over time to their own unique environment or to access new resources. This is one of the very cornerstones of speciation. Sometimes this works out with terrestrial animals going aquatic or vice versa, and primates are not exempt from these principles. An aquatic adapted primate is really no less a biologically sound possibility than an aquatic anything else, of which we have many.

This was what I was getting at. I do not wish to have my example misconstrued as anything other than what it was meant to be. I’m not talking about Hundrdeth Monkey or any other such hogwash. This is really a quite simple concept I was attempting to illustrate in my example. I’m talking about simple evolution 101.

It doesn’t really matter to any great degree anyway since we have no evidence whatsoever that this has occurred on the Kei island and it is really just speculation on possibilities, not a formal hypothesis on the matter. However, it is not some magical, outlandish notion that could never possibly happen. It has happened with other animals. Maybe it did with monkeys in this habitat and if it did here’s how something like that may have happened. If that did happen, then sure enough that maight just look like something in the reports for the Orang Ikan. That was my gist.

As for the body that Horibe witnessed, I think you are perhaps onto something with the Jenny Hanniver. The viewing conditions were at night and probably far from ideal, Horibe was no doubt under duress, a lot of things could have contributed to a false identification. In addition, I suppose it is true that it would not have to necessarily be a good Jenny Hanniver or other fake, just good enough. How good was good enough to fool Horibe to such a degree? Was it indeed a fake at all? Sadly, we don’t know and probably never will.

As for Japanese sea lions, well… yes they are probably extinct. However history has surprised us on too many occasions with the reappearance of animals that were proclaimed definitely extinct by people who knew too much about them or all about them for that to really be such a 100% sure thing. Extinction is a tenuous classification.

In the case of the Japanese sea lion? Yes, most likely extinct, I think it probably is, but history has shown us on many notable occasions that nature has a way of overturning statements like definitely extinct. RIP..

Anyway, I appreciate your input on these things, and it is valued. I find your questioning, critical approach to be refreshing and you often make very good points. I am glad you enjoy my articles and appreciate the feedback.

One last thing on the Orang Ikon story which I feel is illustrative of how important it is to try and understand the history, the geography, the knowledge of the people involved, etc, etc, before trying to make guesses about any unidentified animal sightings.

Case in point. Taro Horiba’s eyewitness testimony from the chief’s home is the strogest, most detailed, intriguing evidence for the Orang Ikon. And even if still alive, I have no doubt that Taro Horiba would pass any polygraph test.

But consider this. The sighting took place in 1943 on an obscure small island. Outside maybe a small gasoline driven generator at the Japanese command post what other electricity existed there? Zero.
Horibe describes his one and only close-up view of the creature as when one EVENING he was summoned by the chief of the nearby village and viewed it, “sprawled out upon the grass at the chief’s home.” By candlelight? Torchlight? Full moon?

On some of your other posts, just from my POV for what it’s worth. You might be on to something about introduced large crayfish in Japan. If there is any Japanese wolf DNA left, dog wolf hybrids would seem by far most likely. I know too much about pinnipeds. The Japanese sea lion is definitely extinct. RIP.

Again, I appreciate all your article posts. They are always well-written, researched and it’s refreshing to read posts from an author who understands the the importance of critical thinking. Look forward to reading more.

I also suppose that if the sergeant was not familiar with many animals or such constructed fakes, one could potentially appear to be something quite mysterious. I do not know what the exact viewing conditions were, only to say he seems to have gotten a good look at whatever it was if he indeed saw “algae” on it.

Anyway, I am not opposed to the idea that what he saw was fake. I do think that without knowing just what kind of person Horibe was, it is hard to say just what he saw or what quality of fake would have that effect on him. He could have been so stressed at the time that a dead dugong could have scared the pants off him. Who knows.

I am just looking at the options. Don’t get me wrong, Jenny Hanniver is not an unreasonable hypothesis in my opinion. Heck, for all we know, the story is highly exaggerated or even fabricated. Like I said before, this was not his objective, he was a soldier, not a scientist, and he was likely under a great deal of duress being far from home in wartime.

The potential for an unreliable account seems to be high.

The Hundreth monkey effect is more the idea that after a certain critical mass, if you will, the behavior will instantly jump to other populations. The information spreads from one group to all related groups, even across geological boundaries. In fact te original research described it as behavior jumping across to nearby islands.

The idea that some critical number is reached when a behavior mysteriously “jumps” to other groups is of course questionable, but the concept that animals can learn through repetition and observation has not been called into question or discredited. It is actually well documented and established animal behavior. Surely you are not denying that animals, in this case primates, learn behavior from each other at all?

Many animals do share information between themselves as well as learned behaviors. In the case of primates, this is not any strange phenomenon, but rather interaction between highly intelligent animals. Chimpanzees even display passed down behaviors that some might even say resemble a form of culture.

Anyway, I was not talking about the Hundreth monkey effect at all and it as no bearing on anything I’ve said. I was not even really focusing on learned behaviors. My example was meant to focus on the evolution of species to adapt to environmental pressures and how this might happen. Many species have adapted to in just this way to aquatic environments. I would hope you are not implying primates are somehow special or exempt from this.

As to our good sergeant, indeed I do not know for sure what happened. I was not there and of course I did not interview him. I have no idea, and you are right that only the original report matters.

Unfortunately the original report does not give much to work with. We only know that he saw it close enough to see apparent algae on the body, that it was no species that he had ever seen, that it exuded a smell, that he truly believed it to be real, and that it deeply disturbed him.

I would add that different cultures and different values don’t really equate to different abilities to be fooled by a fake or different perceptions of what looks real. It either looks like a real animal or it does not. It is either a fake crafted to the point where it fools the viewer into thinking it is an actual animal or it does not.

I don’t think my point of high quality craftsmanship of the Japanese concerning gaffes is meaningless. Many FeeJee mermaids found their way throughout the world and many were made by people in other countries. Do you know which were consistently held up as of the best quality and the most realistic under even close scrutiny? Ones made in Japan. These were highly thought of outside of Japan as well, and many of the most famous ones were traced back to Japan.

I meant to illustrate that the best quality fakes were made in Japan and that it was not easy to do. Only a handful of craftsmen were known to do such good quality fakes. Differences of culture or not, in order to make a gaffe that can fool even a trained naturalist under scrutiny (as they were known to do back in the day), you have to have some level of skill.

This was a well known skill in Japan, and the fakes manufactured there were highly regarded. If it looked like a real animal and fooled droves of people, it invariably turned out to be of Japanese origin. I have researched and written several articles on this matter. Do you know if this was this a skill known in the Kei islands? Do you know for sure that they were able to craft such gaffes?

True, maybe it was not a well made fake, but if it was a fake, then it sure was well made enough to scare Horibe. It must have been at least decently made to have such an effect, I would say. A soldier at war could have been completely taken in by badly made fake to the point that it frightened him and haunted him for the rest of his days, I suppose, but I wonder about that.

I think you have pretty good point about the difference in what was sighted and what was seen in the purported dead body. They may be totally unrelated. That is a good question and I wonder how closely the two matched. I don’t have enough information to say.

Anyway, thank you for your good input. It is good to attack these things from all sides and you have a good, critical approach. I only wish I had more on this account to work with.

Choosing years of ridicule over life as a war hero is a choice that …well, I’m not dismissing anything when someone made that choice. Particularly when I wasn’t there.

Didn’t say it specifically, but great points you made about evolution. It does what it does. It’s not about perfect, it’s about good enough. Aye-aye and tarsier and gorilla and us: primates.

There’s room for much in a range like that. And we have evidence, experts estimate, for about five percent of it.

There is also the possibility that the body shown was some sort of FeeJee mermaid type gaffe. For readers who don’t know, this is basically a fake creature that is an amalgam of parts from several different animals.

To be sure, some of these FeeJee mermaids were extremely well crafted. Many specimens were so well done that is was nearly impossible to see the seams where the various parts were attached, even under close scrutiny. In fact, the Japanese were long known for their exquisite craftsmanship of FeeJee mermaids, to the point that even naturalists of the day were sometimes fooled. It is possible that such an object might have fooled Horibe as well.

I do wonder if the villagers of this island would have the capabilities or the motive to fashion such a flawless, well-made gaffe of this sort, though. FeeJee mermaids of this sort were expensive and highly prized in Japan, with only a small number of craftsmen able to make such realistic ones. I wonder if the villagers be able to do this or want to go through the trouble just to mess with the soldiers.

Of course, even if the body was fake, we of course we have the sightings of live creatures to contend with.

As for Horibe, whatever he saw truly disturbed him. He went through great efforts to implore scientists to go back and investigate. Whether he really experienced these things or not, the fact remains that he was freaked out about something he had seen.

Alas, as you say, we may never know what was going on here.