Comments on: Ostman Abduction Story Stands Up

By: jerrywayne

jerrywayne — Sun, 04 Jul 2010 04:23:14 +0000

Further appeal to the literature….

quatchibc,
It seems you may be recalling the “Jacko” incident, wherein a newspaper report in 1884 told of a small ape-like creature allegedly captured near Yale, B.C. and caged at a local jail. This story was initially accepted by bigfooters Green and Sanderson, but later generally rejected due to further research by Green. I refer you to Loren’s BIGFOOT: The True Story of Apes In America (p.41-42) for the details.

MattBille’s argument certainly damages the credibility of the Ostman account. Buhs suggests Green funnelled the more ape-like aspects of Ostman’s descriptions of Sasquatch in his articles while downplaying the story’s (Sasquatch as) primitive human aspects. For me, the entire Sasquatch phenomena has a curious admixture of ape and human elements.

It is true that Sanderson seemed to believe Sasquatch represented a proto-human species. But I am not sure how seriously his view should be taken. Concerning the gorilla, Sanderson wrote “Seeing these creatures in life, listening to their calls and talk … I can only regard them a retrograde form of human … life” (from his Animal Treasures, 1937, and quoted in the late Martin Gardner’s FADS AND FALLACIES In The Name of Science (p.131-132).

By: Kopite

Kopite — Sat, 03 Jul 2010 06:45:39 +0000

Jerrywayne,

Thanks for the quote. Yes that it what I was thinking of. Cheers.

By: quatchibc

quatchibc — Sat, 03 Jul 2010 00:42:20 +0000

One story from that time that I always thought was relatable was the report of the Sasquatch being transported by train and broke free or just disappeared, I believe it was coming from Hope and heading towards Vancouver, it was earlier 1880′s I believe but if I recall correctly I think the descriptions of the two “Sasquatch” were similar.

By: jerrywayne

jerrywayne — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 02:10:02 +0000

Relating to comments concerning the possibility Ostman told others of his amazing adventure prior to the 1950s, Green wrote (THE BEST OF SASQUATCH BIGFOOT):

“The only other information that has come to my attention which appears to have a bearing on the Ostman story was a comment by an old friend of mine that he had first heard of the sasquatch in the early 1930′s from a trapper at Toba Inlet who said he knew a young Swede who had been carried off by one.” (p.34)

Concerning the Roe and Ostman connection, Buhs notes (BIGFOOT:the Life and Times of a Legend): “Green published Roe’s account in his newspaper and a little while later, Albert Ostman, a retired logger, wrote to Roe, saying that he too had seen a Sasquatch-actually four-but had kept the story to himself for more than thirty years because he feared being ridiculed.” (p.60)

By: MattBille

MattBille — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 04:04:09 +0000

I should have been more specific. Interweaving of branches, etc. in creating nests is observed behavior in some apes. Ostman attributed slightly more sophisticated weaving to sasquatch, but no one before or since Ostman has ever reported sasquatch making woven objects, and no one has found anything that might have been woven by sasquatch.
(Braiding of horses’ manes, as I am sure Loren knows, is a story going back to medieval Europe at least and used to be blamed on witches or fairies (or, by the Algonquin, the Abenaki, the little people). Attributing such alleged occurrences to sasquatch, short of catching the critter in the act, seems a stretch. For one thing, why would a horse just stand there and permit a huge unfamiliar animal to mess with it?)
I’m sort of brainstorming here. Ostman was pretty clearly not describing sasquatch as a great ape: Sanderson and Napier, among others, compared his sasquatches to giant furry, technologically primitive humans. That does not make them impossible, of course, but extremely unlikely to my way of thinking from an ancestry point of view (At the same time, the fact that sasquatches are overwhelmingly reported as traveling alone sounds more like human than pongid behavior.)
Getting back to making a point, the kind of family group culture Ostman described, with sasquatches residing in a fixed campsite, should have resulted in finding such campsites: we find nests of apes, even of rare species.

By: corrick

corrick — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 02:27:48 +0000

Fair question. And I’m certainly no Bigfoot expert.

What I do know chronologically is that in 1957, first came the Harrison Hot Springs town council publically inviting René Dahinden to search for “Sasquatch” and the ensuing regional publicity. Only then did first, William Rowe and a week later, Albert Ostman step forward and “officially” offer their stories.

By: Kopite

Kopite — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:31:40 +0000

Corrick writes:

“”Also troubling is that Albert Ostman claims he kept the story entirely secret for over 33 years. Therefore he was unable to produce any brother, uncle, sister, wife, friend, drinking buddy or anyone else he had spoken to about that experience until 1957.”"

Corrick,

Didn’t some in the area already hear of the Ostman story previously? I might be wrong but I’m pretty sure that Green was told about the story of a “young Swede who claimed he was carried away by one of them” and that’s how he got in touch with Ostman?

Perhaps Loren can confirm? I always thought Green had heard a rumour of the story first.

By: jerrywayne

jerrywayne — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 03:01:31 +0000

Thanks for this post. In my initial reading of Green’s comments, it seemed he questioned the Ostman story. On second reading, his comments read more ambiguously. Thanks for clearing up the issue.

I can’t add much more to RandyS and corrick’s comments except the following. It is known that Ostman made his adventure public after William Roe’s account
made the news (he actually revealed his story via a letter to Roe). Green’s note that Ostman’s Sasquatch was foreign to the contemporary popular belief in the giant Indian identity of Sasquatch is true, but overlooks the possibilty he simply borrowed the bipedal ape idea from Roe’s event (if not from the popular image of the yeti).

Also, Daegling in his BIGFOOT EXPOSED notes that Dahinden interviewed Ostman more than once and tried to reconstruct a timeline for Ostman’s adventure. Dahinden eventually concluded that Ostman’s story was “totally impossible.”(p.69)
Daegling also mentions another bigfooter’s negative view: “Barbara Wasson, a psychologist by training, found the Ostman’s story fit better as a projection of his imagination than a recollection of a real event.” (p.69)

By: corrick

corrick — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 00:45:15 +0000

I’m in total agreement with RandyS.
Will add:
Ostman (like William Rowe) came forward with their “stories” in 1957, only AFTER, as a publicity stunt, John Green’s town council of Harrison Hot Springs announced plans to sponsor a “Sasquatch Expedition” inviting Swiss adventurer René Dahinden to lead it. The stunt was a hit, generating major regional publicity. Green, then editor of the local paper himself wrote, “Perhaps never before has a tourist resort achieved such publicity without actually doing anything.”
Also troubling is that Albert Ostman claims he kept the story entirely secret for over 33 years. Therefore he was unable to produce any brother, uncle, sister, wife, friend, drinking buddy or anyone else he had spoken to about that experience until 1957. Seriously? Correct me if I’m wrong, but in everything I remember reading about Ostman, he was a talker and enjoyed attention.
As for his credibility, I’m certain many people found Bernie Madoff to also be very credible.
Haven’t forgotten the arguments about Ostman’s supposed “insights” into hominid behavior either. But isn’t it amazing how when you start out with a theory or belief how easy it is to find corroboritive evidence?
It’s a great story. But it’s not evidence.
Course, on Bigfoot, Sasquatch or any unkown North or South American ape I’m a big skeptic so if you’re a believer please consider the source.

By: RandyS

RandyS — Tue, 29 Jun 2010 20:28:16 +0000

While Ostman’s account is interesting (especially insofar as the specifics of his descriptions have been borne out by subsequent reports), that’s about it — it’s interesting. Unfortunately, as proof, it bears no more weight than does Autumn Williams’ “Enoch.” Until such time as information in those and other witness accounts can lead to a method of observing the creatures at will, or until and unless the stories are confirmed by a specimen in hand, they’re just stories. They don’t even rank as evidence — no matter how many times they’re reprinted or dredged up for discussion.

They’re fun to think about, but let’s not delude ourselves that our belief that someone is telling the truth constitutes proof.