The reason you keep bringing it up is because the words “didn’t always result” mean in your brain that it could be evidence for a cryptid primate.

I cannot find any REAL reference to any unidentified dna result from Orang Pendak.

You seem to be the confused one here. In comment 20 I linked a newspaper article stating that the laboratory at Cambridge had performed a DNA analysis on hair allegedly from an Orang Pendek and had stated that the sample was not from any known animal. There’s your REAL reference.

That’s evidence is it? That quote above? And you are baffled why scientists think these fields are a joke. And you think its because THEY are narrow minded. LOL

The metal content analysis reported in the show was a SCIENTIFIC TEST performed at a CHINESE UNIVERSITY. You or anyone else can ignore it, but it is hard evidence. I don’t know why it was never reported anywhere else, its one of those things that fell through the cracks. (Or was intentionally ignored/supressed.)

In your world it is. The rest of the world, sorry.

No, the evidence – both circumstantial and physical – IS accumulating. Whether people choose to live in the real world and recognize this is another matter.

A tv show quoted is evidence.?

No, a TV show reporting on a SCIENTIFIC TEST performed by a CHINESE UNIVERSITY is evidence.

Seriously..How would you know? I never saw anything. If you had been honestly discussing this you would have asked. I asked you what your background was, and you didnt reply. That means you have never gone and looked for anything cryptid. Ever.

You then admitted never interviewing anyone, and then had the hide to extrapolate your non experience, with how people report things. And you did that without blushing. You’re a desk researcher who doesn’t appear to have read much about anything.

I choose to retain my privacy and anonymity for the most part. I’m no Great White Hunter, but I’ve been in the woods before.

As far as field research goes, that requires time, money, and opportunity and I haven’t had those in the correct combination as of yet. I have other priorities as well. But that doesn’t preclude me from reading about cryptozoology and having an opinion.

Many indigenous people report the creatures as being real/not real/spiritual beings. Because so many witnesses have seen these things we realise that they are “real” in one sense. But, because, after 2,ooo years of civilisation, we still have no evidence, then they cannot be normal
flesh and blood animals. The fact that they appear on so many continents negates them being normal animals.

But we do have evidence, some of which you admit is authentic. So you admit that we have some evidence and then say we have no evidence. And then you say that I’m the one that’s “confused”.

And I suspect that there has been numerous pieces of evidence that was gathered over those 2000 years of civilization, but was lost due to the limitations of the period.

I know of a mermaid that vanished from a side show, using your own logic, the mermaid could be real.

1) Not all side show toys “stay around”.
2) The rotting toy was fake and not worth any more money.

Hmmm – a credentialed zoologist examined it and said it was likely to be real and the Smithsonian was calling for the FBI to investigate the violent way in which the animal seemed to have died and it suddenly disappears. Yeah, I guess you could say that it was a money thing, but I don’t think that’s as plausible as some of the other explanations.

And in general, they are.

Sometimes they are, often they are not.

It was pointing out the absurdity of scientists “confusing” primate dna from human. But you missed that obvious point. Again.

Well if a cryptid has genetic material in common which is much closer to humans than even chimpanzees this could be a real concern. (But again I admit I’m not an expert on DNA analysis and could be wrong.) And the lab at Cambridge said it did not match any known animal.

I didn’t miss the point, you did. And the joke still wasn’t very funny.

Gee, you were quoting x file science fiction about Russian/ape hybrid crosses in the last post with NASA vans and beasts locked inside.

Now you’re back to “man of science”

Gee – the story of the Soviet experiments with hybridization have been reported here at Cryptomundo.

So I’ve been a man of science and reason rather than science fiction all along.

Here is a few.
1) well read researchers.
2) scientifically literate researchers.
3) Researchers who actually go looking for answers and not relying on the tv and computer.
4) Researchers who know the difference between a quote from an unamed tv show/a quote from the web and real evidence.
5) Reseachers who know the difference between x files fiction, ie the ape human hybrids/nasa vans and real cryptid results.

And all these researchers can arrange for armed, free-fire nighttime helicopter missions in the United States? That was my question – what entity could be responsible for the helicopter flights and gunfire connected with at least one set of Bigfoot sightings in the US. And there’s basically only one answer – the military or government.

I am sorry but I cannot go on with this absurdity. Its really difficult to chat with you because you don’t read my posts properly, don’t read your own posts, play silly games with semantics when cornered and don’t appear to know anything about cryptid phenomena/or science in general.

No Mike, you’re the one with the reading comprehension problem and the one who doesn’t bother to pay attention to the facts. Two of the big things you got wrong:

- The metal content analysis of the alleged Yeren hair sample was an actual scientific test conducted by a Chinese university. It was reported in a Discovery or History Channel show.

- The Soviets actually did conduct man/ape hybridization research. The Moscow Times discovered documents to prove this, see the above link in this post.

The insulting and belligerent tone doesn’t help your arguments.

The reason you keep bringing it up is because the words “didn’t always result” mean in your brain that it could be evidence for a cryptid primate.

If it didn’t, you would not keep bringing it up over and over and over.

Now to the chase.

I cannot find any REAL reference to any unidentified dna result from Orang Pendak.

The wikipedia reference quotes a tv show.
Thats all.
End of story.

Funny, you cited it elsewhere in the thread.

Funny, you didn’t read my last post pointing out what I weak reference I was using.
That’s all I could find.

But the metal content analysis on the alleged Chinese Yeren hair sample was documented on a program on the Discovery or History Channel.

That’s evidence is it? That quote above?
And you are baffled why scientists think these fields are a joke.
And you think its because THEY are narrow minded. LOL

Your earlier statement was stronger. I forget the exact words but you indicated you thought the film was authentic.

God, give me strength. Read what we actually wrote for Fortean times.

There aren’t. Perhaps cryptid primates are unique. But the evidence, both circumstantial and hard evidence, is accumulating nonetheless.

In your world it is. The rest of the world, sorry.
So far you have quoted these killer bits of “evidence”.
1) A show on Foxtell
2) A wikipedia entry
3) A show on discovery or History channel.
4) an unidentified dna result.

No it isn’t. I told you the source, I’m not going to buy the tape for you.

This has got to be a joke of some sort.
Please read your own actual posts.
You actually said Then you have the metal content analysis indicating “unknown primate” from China.
You dont read my posts, you dont read your own.

The metal content analysis was documented on a show that examined the Yeren that aired on either the Discovery or History.

A tv show quoted is evidence.?

I commented on seemingly strange occurrences in the woods in general.

Seriously..How would you know? I never saw anything. If you had been honestly discussing this you would have asked. I asked you what your background was, and you didnt reply. That means you have never gone and looked for anything cryptid. Ever.

You then admitted never interviewing anyone, and then had the hide to extrapolate your non experience, with how people report things. And you did that without blushing. You’re a desk researcher who doesn’t appear to have read much about anything.

Yes, but your explanations are similarly speculative and “lame”.

But you don’t even know what our explanations are since you have obviously never read what we wrote.

Our speculations are based on doing the hard yards in the field, reading books on science, dealing with scientists, interviewing witnesses. None of which you appear to have done ever.

If it cannot be explained/proved scientifically the we must move on to the next step. I know you are confused, but read on.

The conclusions, which you are obviously incapable of reading or of understanding are.
Due the commonality of the primate like forms we are dealing with 1 type of phenomena.
This has been seen on most continents of the world.

Many indigenous people report the creatures as being real/not real/spiritual beings. Because so many witnesses have seen these things we realise that they are “real” in one sense. But, because, after 2,ooo years of civilisation, we still have no evidence, then they cannot be normal
flesh and blood animals. The fact that they appear on so many continents negates them being normal animals.

This is confirmed when you examine reports of bizarre movement/eye shine/the dread feeling/indigenous reports/silent ovement/association with other paranormal phenomena.

Good example is the Skinwalker ranch/Ute beliefs about skinwalkers.

The “killer” counter arguments/evidence presented by you to counter our “work”

Drum roll.

1) A show on Foxtell
2) A wikipedia entry
3) A show on discovery or History channel.
4) an unidentified dna result.

Sideshow people and hoaxers have all kinds of scams, from fake mermaids to furry trout to jackalopes. Why did this one suddenly disappear while all of the other hoaxes stay around.

I know of a mermaid that vanished from a side show, using your own logic, the mermaid could be real.

Logic would say.

1) Not all side show toys “stay around”.
2) The rotting toy was fake and not worth any more money.

That’s what skeptics don’t want to acknowledge – their explanations have to be more convincing than the cryptozoological explanations.

And in general, they are.

And I noticed the “joke”, just didn’t think it was too funny.

It was pointing out the absurdity of scientists “confusing” primate dna from human. But you missed that obvious point. Again.

Hence the possibility for confusion.

The “confusion” is you not understanding the dna differences between primates and humans. If there is none, why don’t the scientists know that? And if there is a difference, thats what I am talking about.

I have never interviewed anyone.

But there’s a difference between attributing something that is “weird” to extraordinary or previously unheard-of natural abilities and supernatural powers.

Gee, you were quoting x file science fiction about Russian/ape hybrid crosses in the last post with NASA vans and beasts locked inside.

Now you’re back to “man of science”

What alternatives are there besides military or government involvement?

Here is a few.
1) well read researchers.
2) scientifically literate researchers.
3) Researchers who actually go looking for answers and not relying on the tv and computer.
4) Researchers who know the difference between a quote from an unamed tv show/a quote from the web and real evidence.
5) Reseachers who know the difference between x files fiction, ie the ape human hybrids/nasa vans and real cryptid results.

I am sorry but I cannot go on with this absurdity. Its really difficult to chat with you because you don’t read my posts properly, don’t read your own posts, play silly games with semantics when cornered and don’t appear to know anything about cryptid phenomena/or science in general.

It was fun.

Mike

I didn’t say that, I said that all three of the decision tree variables didn’t always result in the likelihood of a crypid primate. But I said that in the case of Orang Pendek, which in some cases has been described as very human-like, an additional variable could lead to that likelihood.

source wikipedia.? groan

Funny, you cited it elsewhere in the thread. But the metal content analysis on the alleged Chinese Yeren hair sample was documented on a program on the Discovery or History Channel.

Film showed something weird, sure.

Your earlier statement was stronger. I forget the exact words but you indicated you thought the film was authentic.

Different unidentified species running around now?

Okay then, stick to genus, give me 1 example of large animals that are from the same genus that cannot be caught and pop up everywhere.
And, if you are about to say how do we know they are from the same genus, then give me 1 example of of large animals that share the same basic body structure, that pop up everywhere all over the earth and cannot be caught on land.

There aren’t. Perhaps cryptid primates are unique. But the evidence, both circumstantial and hard evidence, is accumulating nonetheless.

1) Metal content analysis is a scientific test.
2) The use of this term, and providing no evidence to back your claim is called an anecdote.

No it isn’t. I told you the source, I’m not going to buy the tape for you. The metal content analysis was documented on a show that examined the Yeren that aired on either the Discovery or History Channel here in the US.

So you do have a sense of humour.

The High Sierra ones, which.

From the context it seemed like you were referring to the reocrdings. The Sierra recordings seem to be the oldest, most extensive, and most examined, so I was mainly referring to them.

You just did comment, indirectly, on my experience!

If someone is not used to the dark, being by themselves and does most of their “research” behind the desk I am sure your summmary is correct.

I commented on seemingly strange occurrences in the woods in general. Experience does decrease the likelihood of perceiving something as strange, but not altogether.

What scientists would be interested if you told them the proof for your idea is “reportedly briefed” quoted, in Wikipedia?

Seriously, you must admit it is pretty lame.

Yes, but your explanations are similarly speculative and “lame”. Sideshow people and hoaxers have all kinds of scams, from fake mermaids to furry trout to jackalopes. Why did this one suddenly disappear while all of the other hoaxes stay around.

That’s what skeptics don’t want to acknowledge – their explanations have to be more convincing than the cryptozoological explanations.

But the source was wikipedia, which stinks. That’s all I can find.
Lets pretend its true.
It doesn’t matter that orang pendak looks similar to us.
We share common dna with many animals and are similar to primates.
The “confusion” appears to be your understanding of dna.
If the results were true, and I doubt it, they were human.
Have you ever seen a dna result from a sample test of anything?
Thats why I made that joke about the police finding dna and going “the killer could have been a human or a chimp”.
Which you missed.

Wikipedia was for the most part quoting other sources. And I was referring to the general accounts of the Orang Pendek, and things like the sketch in National Geographic.

And I noticed the “joke”, just didn’t think it was too funny.

But if a cryptid is closer to humans than chimps that would seem to indicate it has even more genetic material in common with humans. Hence the possibility for confusion. (And I have stated repeatedly that I am no expert on DNA analysis.)

Interesting use of the word “attributions”.
Witnesses report something really odd.
They might actually be just reporting what they have seen.
In all the people you have interviewed are you trying to tell me that none have reported something really weird.

I have never interviewed anyone. But there’s a difference between attributing something that is “weird” to extraordinary or previously unheard-of natural abilities and supernatural powers.

Seriously, after the apemen/human hybrid/NASA vans etc, I think the UK bigfoot is fairly tame for your beliefs, don’t you?

There is what is “tame” and what is plausible. The UK is pretty densely populated, so its pretty amazing that something could remain in hiding for that long. I’m not ruling it out, however. The various governments, especially the US government, have been documented to be involved in some very strange and unusual research, so I don’t see some suspicions about them is that farfetched. There are a limited number of entities that can employ nighttime helicopter flights and gunfire in conjunction with Bigfoot sightings. What alternatives are there besides military or government involvement? Private contractors employed by a wealthy eccentric?

The top of the post here and you are implying that unidentified dna is relevent to cryptid primate forms.
Further down in this post you are saying:

I didn’t say that was the decision tree – that any result supported the conclusion of cryptid ape form

If none of the dna “results” support the conclusion of a cryptid ape form why do you keep bringing it up over and over.

Metal content analysis in China.

source wikipedia.? groan

Patterson / Gimlin film in the US.

Film showed something weird, sure.

No one’s saying they are the same species, there are a lot of differences in the various cryptids seen. From height to foot structure to color to appearance.

Different unidentified species running around now?

That all share common morphology.

Okay then, stick to genus, give me 1 example of large animals that are from the same genus that cannot be caught and pop up everywhere.
And, if you are about to say how do we know they are from the same genus, then give me 1 example of of large animals that share the same basic body structure, that pop up everywhere all over the earth and cannot be caught on land.

The metal content analysis isn’t an “anecdote”, its a scientific test.

1) Metal content analysis is a scientific test.
2) The use of this term, and providing no evidence to back your claim is called an anecdote.

I wasn’t aware of a “majority” even listening to and analyzing the recordings. Do you have a link for this?

So you do have a sense of humour.

You’re not reading the posts in full.

I was talking, obviously, about all the evidence in full.

And, if you want to be pedantic, which recordings are you exactly referring to?

The High Sierra ones, which.

Cocoon-like immersion in their particular theories.

Reminds me of someone.

I had a few experiences that did not appear to be “normal”.

Well I can’t comment on your experiences, but a lot of things can appear strange when one is alone in the woods, especially at night and under low visibility conditions.

You just did comment, indirectly, on my experience!

If someone is not used to the dark, being by themselves and does most of their “research” behind the desk I am sure your summmary is correct.

What I experienced had nothing to do with visibility.

Interesting how you couldn’t actually even be bothered to ask what my experiences were.

Which leads me into the next question.
Whats your background in any aspect of cryptozoology.

From Wikipedia The Smithsonian Institution

Thats the same lousy source I used with trepidation in another post.

The actual quote says “The Smithsonian Institution was reportedly briefed”

Thats it.

What scientists would be interested if you told them the proof for your idea is “reportedly briefed” quoted, in Wikipedia?

Seriously, you must admit it is pretty lame.

I believe it is likely that various classified research projects exist focusing on cryptid primates. The Soviets at one point were doing research in trying to cross apes with men to create “super-soldiers”. Frequently the US did parallel research to the Soviets. There has been a number of strange circumstances surrounding Bigfoot and other cryptid sightings. In some instances helicopters and gunfire have been reported. In other instances gunfire has been mentioned in connection with a police presence. Then there are strange accounts like the one from Puerto Rico of something being held captive in the back of a van with NASA markings.

errr, what can I say? wow!

I didn’t say that was the decision tree

No, you just implied that unidentified dna = cryptid primate.

You did it again at the top of this post as well.

I merely mentioned that the Orang Pendek is allegedly quite human-like and that might create the possibility of confusion in the DNA analysis.

But the source was wikipedia, which stinks. That’s all I can find.
Lets pretend its true.
It doesn’t matter that orang pendak looks similar to us.
We share common dna with many animals and are similar to primates.
The “confusion” appears to be your understanding of dna.
If the results were true, and I doubt it, they were human.
Have you ever seen a dna result from a sample test of anything?
Thats why I made that joke about the police finding dna and going “the killer could have been a human or a chimp”.
Which you missed.

I can see some legends and supernatural attributions growing up around it.

Interesting use of the word “attributions”.
Witnesses report something really odd.
They might actually be just reporting what they have seen.
In all the people you have interviewed are you trying to tell me that none have reported something really weird.

No, I didn’t say we should ignore it. But this discussion is about whether cryptid primates exist, not an intense investigation of the timeline surrounding the Patterson/Gimlin film.

It was never intense, just about 5 lines.

If you find the biometric analyses of the film convincing then you believe that it probably portrays a cryptid primate, therefore you believe it is more likely than not that they exist.

Did you actually read the article posted by Fortean times, or our introduction?

Didn’t say that. I think it’s a possibility, although not a particularly strong one.

Seriously, after the apemen/human hybrid/NASA vans etc, I think the UK bigfoot is fairly tame for your beliefs, don’t you?

Sure, but aboriginals exist. Since yowies are only alleged to exist we have no idea what their diet is.

You are correct in that I may be speculating a little too much here. From alleged sightings and scat in the US there is more information on probable diet.

Its the wide variety of places the monster ape like beasties keep popping up that destroys its credibility.

Well, the funny thing is the evidence keeps piling up in the wide variety of places they are seen – both the circumstantial and the hard evidence. Unidentified DNA in Bhutan. Metal content analysis in China. Patterson / Gimlin film in the US.

If it’s just a normal primate form, give me an example of a primate found in the majority of countries.

Even you must admit it would be more plausible for a mystery flesh and blood animal to be reported in one area/country.

No one’s saying they are the same species, there are a lot of differences in the various cryptids seen. From height to foot structure to color to appearance.

What other normal animal has reports of its appearances all over the globe and yet cannot be found?

But we will ignore that obvious hole and move on.

Well there are other cryptids, for instance. Ones we have some decent evidence for – like the pictures of the “cadborosaurus” corpse. There are accounts of “water horses” from many areas of the world.

Interesting anecdotes.

The metal content analysis isn’t an “anecdote”, its a scientific test.

And dismissed by the majority.

I wasn’t aware of a “majority” even listening to and analyzing the recordings. Do you have a link for this?

If the “evidence” is so credible then how does your belief system cope with the majority of scientists thinking its utter garbage?

Cocoon-like immersion in their particular theories. Immense pressure to conform to the “consensus” until it changes. In some cases they may actually believe it is possible but lie to avoid ridicule or damage to their careers/reputations.

I had a few experiences that did not appear to be “normal”.

Well I can’t comment on your experiences, but a lot of things can appear strange when one is alone in the woods, especially at night and under low visibility conditions.

Who cares how it turned up in a side show.

The showman could have said anything, showed the body to the Smithsonian, they go crazy, big headlines, big $.

He could have made a promise to the original “owner”. The original “owner” could have been a friend or relative. There are a lot of possibilities.

Interesting claim, whats the source?

From Wikipedia.

“The Smithsonian Institution was reportedly briefly interested in the iceman, asking Dr. John Napier to investigate, then suggesting the FBI investigate, due to reports that the creature had been shot and killed. Shortly thereafter, the iceman disappeared from public display, withdrawn, Hansen said, by the California-based owner.”

Seriously, why would the government care about an unusual primate form? I can hear the x-fles soundtrack now.

Australia never has had that history.

I believe it is likely that various classified research projects exist focusing on cryptid primates. The Soviets at one point were doing research in trying to cross apes with men to create “super-soldiers”. Frequently the US did parallel research to the Soviets. There has been a number of strange circumstances surrounding Bigfoot and other cryptid sightings. In some instances helicopters and gunfire have been reported. In other instances gunfire has been mentioned in connection with a police presence. Then there are strange accounts like the one from Puerto Rico of something being held captive in the back of a van with NASA markings.

Claim of Unknown dna result = Possible Cryptid ape form.
Claim of Human dna result = Possible Cryptid ape form.
Contaminated dna result = Possible Cryptid ape form.

I didn’t say that was the decision tree – that any result supported the conclusion of cryptid ape form. I merely mentioned that the Orang Pendek is allegedly quite human-like and that might create the possibility of confusion in the DNA analysis.

But I dont know of even one…But we will gloss over that and move on..

If an animal was particularly elusive and good at avoiding contact I can see some legends and supernatural attributions growing up around it.

Exactly. Which it shouldn’t be. But we will ignore it.

No, I didn’t say we should ignore it. But this discussion is about whether cryptid primates exist, not an intense investigation of the timeline surrounding the Patterson/Gimlin film. If you find the biometric analyses of the film convincing then you believe that it probably portrays a cryptid primate, therefore you believe it is more likely than not that they exist.

Sure, but if the footage is real, then we will say, great, the only decent evidence is a 16mm film.

If not, then we have the only land animal that can turn on its eye balls at night and emit light. It’s not looking good, is it?

If we believe that the footage is real then we have another piece of good evidence to throw on the pile with the DNA, the metals analysis, etc.

The illuminated eyes are a seperate issue. Again, these could be hoaxes. Or it could be some type of bio-lumenescence.

Excellent, we agree.

There are monster unknown ape-like beings living in the forests of the UK for 2,000 years that have never been caught.

Didn’t say that. I thinks its a possibility, although not a particularly strong one.

Sure, but aboriginals exist. Since yowies are only alleged to exist we have no idea what their diet is.

I just said that cryptid primates had been sighted on every continent but antarctica – I didn’t say I had any kind of detailed theories on their origin.

But that’s the point.

Its the wide variety of places the monster ape like beasties keep popping up that destroys its credibility.

If it’s just a normal primate form, give me an example of a primate found in the majority of countries.

Just one.

Even you must admit it would be more plausible for a mystery flesh and blood animal to be reported in one area/country.

What other normal animal has reports of its appearances all over the globe and yet cannot be found?

There is none.

But we will ignore that obvious hole and move on.

Disotell even suggested contamination!

And depending on the nature of the contamination, he could be looking at something that is very close to human but actually isn’t and thinking it is “contamination.”

If the flimsy reference for him is right its fairly unambigous. If you disgree with his supposed claim then why not contact him?

Do you have any links on the Disotell findings?

Yes, and they are all I can find.
(2006-02-27). Is it Real: Ape Man [TV-Series]. U.S.A.: The National Geographic Channel.

No, there is at least one unknown DNA result, maybe more.

I said one unknown in my post.

Claim of Unknown dna result = Possible Cryptid ape form.
Claim of Human dna result = Possible Cryptid ape form.
Contaminated dna result = Possible Cryptid ape form.

have the metal content analysis indicating “unknown primate” from China. You have a number of alleged feces, scat, etc.

Interesting anecdotes.

You have vocalization recordings that have been authenticated by some experts.

And dismissed by the majority.

You have a large amount of casts, some with emough detail to show dermal ridging. Sorry – you repeatedly ignore a ton of evidence, some of it quite credible.

No, you’re not reading my posts properly.

If the “evidence” is so credible then how does your belief system cope with the majority of scientists thinking its utter garbage?

I am accepting that some of the casts are real.

I am accepting that some of the witnesses are genuine.

I have interviewed heaps of witnesses and travelled thousands of miles and spent hundreds of hours in forests by myself, mostly at night.

I didn’t do all that because I thought there was no reality to the phenomena.

But I kept finding witnesses reporting things they were not supposed to if the animals were normal.

I kept finding books like 3 men chasing monsters and “the bigfoot files”+ The skinwalker ranch, etc.

I had a few experiences that did not appear to be “normal”.

And I could find no decent evidence.

And none popped up anywhere else in the world.

There are several plausible scenarios. US soldier illegally kills rare ape while in southeast asia (possibly in a country he wasn’t supposed to officially be in) and then illegally smuggles it back to the US and then illegally sells it to a carnival or sideshow exhibitor.

As interesting as your scenario is, it doesnt answer my question.

Who cares how it turned up in a side show.

The showman could have said anything, showed the body to the Smithsonian, they go crazy, big headlines, big $.

The Smithsonian also called the FBI in to investigate it.

Interesting claim, whats the source?

the government either bought it or seized it and then hushed it up.

Seriously, why would the government care about an unusual primate form? I can hear the x-fles soundtrack now.

Australia never has had that history.

Not quite.

You did suggest Yowies.

And again the aborigines made it there, so its possible some primates did too.

Sure, no decent evidence for the primates, but that doesn’t matter.

And we will ignore how the koori say:

1) it exists and is flesh and blood.
2) Its doesn’t exist.
3) It’s a spirit and not of flesh.

Funny how after 40,000 years they still cannot agree. But there must be loads of other animals in OZ like this which the koori have 3 different ideas about.

But I dont know of even one…But we will gloss over that and move on..

So the timeline is wrong.

Exactly. Which it shouldn’t be. But we will ignore it.

But if you find the biometric analyses convincing, you still have footage of a cryptid primate, regardless of when it was developed.

Sure, but if the footage is real, then we will say, great, the only decent evidence is a 16mm film.

And that is still inside our belief systems.

If not, then we have the only land animal that can turn on its eye balls at night and emit light. It’s not looking good, is it?

Still looks good to me. I wouldn’t rule out some very strange visual adaptations.

You forgot terrestial animal examples.

And of course the “shining eye” sightings could be hoaxes.

All of them, sure, why not eh?

In fact one of the suits used in a hoax recently recounted on this sight had reflective eyes. A hoaxer could easily add a light source.

I never was talking about “reflective” eyes.

Sure, then we accept sightings that fit our belief system as real.

And sightings that dont fit our ideas as hoax.

Easy.

Well first of all accounts of “wildmen” are not foreign to the British Isles – there are lots of them.

Excellent, we agree.

There are monster unknown ape-like beings living in the forests of the UK for 2,000 years that have never been caught.

There are other explanations as well – a cryptid could have escaped from a research facility or a private owner.

A monster cryptid, sure why not.

Disotell even suggested contamination!

And depending on the nature of the contamination, he could be looking at something that is very close to human but actually isn’t and thinking it is “contamination”. The Orang Pendek accounts indicate something very close to human.

Do you have any links on the Disotell findings?

There is 1 unknown dna result+loads of sightings+plaster casts.

That’s it.

No, there is at least one unknown DNA result, maybe more. Then you have the metal content analysis indicating “unknown primate” from China. You have a number of alleged feces, scat, etc. You have vocalization recordings that have been authenticated by some experts. You have a large amount of casts, some with emough detail to show dermal ridging. Sorry – you repeatedly ignore a ton of evidence, some of it quite credible.

No body on the table-You cannot explain why a showman after money didnt release for big $. End result. Nothing.

There are several plausible scenarios. US soldier illegally kills rare ape while in southeast asia (possibly in a country he wasn’t supposed to officially be in) and then illegally smuggles it back to the US and then illegally sells it to a carnival or sideshow exhibitor. There’s a lot of liability there. The Smithsonian also called the FBI in to investigate it. So there are lots of reasons why it might have disappeared suddenly. Its possible – no, scratch that, it’s probably one of the the strongest explanations – that the government either bought it or seized it and then hushed it up.

1) where it came from had a normal biological history of ape like/monkey like forms.
2) Australia never has had that history.

Not quite. Central and South America has indigenous monkeys, but allegedly no apes. And certainly no apes that allegedly can walk upright and use tools. So DeLoys ape was quite unlike anything that’s officially supposed to be there. And again the aborigines made it there, so its possible some primates did too.

I agree, but it doesn’t explain the time line of how the film was developed/who did it and how it came back o quickly for showing.

I do not believe you could have 16mm film develop that quickly now, let alone then.

So the timeline is wrong. But if you find the biometric analyses convincing you still have footage of a cryptid primate, regardless of when it was developed.

para = beyond, so it’s beyond normal. If you could give me examples of land animals whose eyeballs can produce light then that would be great. If not, then we have the only land animal that can turn on its eye balls at night and emit light.

Its not looking good is it?

Still looks good to me. I wouldn’t rule out some very strange visual adaptations. And of course the “shining eye” sightings could be hoaxes. In fact one of the suits used in a hoax recently recounted on this sight had reflective eyes. A hoaxer could easily add a light source.

So, if the reports are valid, then you have to honestly believe a monster ape like form could have hid in the forests of the UK for 2,000 years and never be found?

Do you see any problems with that idea?

Well first of all accounts of “wildmen” are not foreign to the British Isles – there are lots of them. I think there is even a “wild man” somewhere in the Arthurian legend. So it is very possible that they have been encountered there in the past.

There are other explanations as well – a cryptid could have escaped from a research facility or a private owner.

The aborigines are placental mammals, and they made it to Australia. And the alleged cryptid primates have similar diets. Although how cryptid primates made it over patches of ocean is certainly a problem.

I just said that cryptid primates had been sighted on every continent but antarctica – I didn’t say I had any kind of detailed theories on their origin.

MikeW-

Low on time now, I’ll try to respond later.