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	<title>Comments on: Speaking of Name Calling and Skeptics</title>
	<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/woo/</link>
	<description>for Bigfoot, Loch Ness, and More</description>
	<pubDate>Fri,  4 Jul 2008 21:41:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Regan Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/woo/#comment-30967</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2007 06:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/woo/#comment-30967</guid>
					<description>Somewhat related to the discussion; a while back I wrote this piece about the more strident "chronic" skeptics: &lt;a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=13426" rel="nofollow"&gt;The Usual Purple Tinged Hyperbole About UFOs&lt;/a&gt;

The use of varied, creative and colorful terms to describe "skeptics" is to help distinguish the types of skeptics. It's one thing to be skeptical, it's another to be pathological about it.

My two cents on it anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somewhat related to the discussion; a while back I wrote this piece about the more strident &#8220;chronic&#8221; skeptics: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=13426" rel="nofollow">The Usual Purple Tinged Hyperbole About UFOs</a></p>
<p>The use of varied, creative and colorful terms to describe &#8220;skeptics&#8221; is to help distinguish the types of skeptics. It&#8217;s one thing to be skeptical, it&#8217;s another to be pathological about it.</p>
<p>My two cents on it anyway.
</p>
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		<title>by: Carol Maltby</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/woo/#comment-30900</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 18:46:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/woo/#comment-30900</guid>
					<description>I have to say that the SkepticWiki claim that there is a particular definition of skepticism that is used in their forums, and the way they barely accept the use of NPOV with a begrudging statement that it is "legitimate," gave me the chills. I haven't seen that level of overt dogmatism in the scuffles so far between the so-called skeptic and believer camps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say that the SkepticWiki claim that there is a particular definition of skepticism that is used in their forums, and the way they barely accept the use of NPOV with a begrudging statement that it is &#8220;legitimate,&#8221; gave me the chills. I haven&#8217;t seen that level of overt dogmatism in the scuffles so far between the so-called skeptic and believer camps.
</p>
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		<title>by: DWA</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/woo/#comment-30866</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 15:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/woo/#comment-30866</guid>
					<description>And one must remember (just saw his post) mystery_man's own description of his own history on crypto questions.

He was once as denialist as they come.  But he started adopting other angles.

I don't so much go for labels.  But I don't like "skeptic" being used the way cryptos use it.  You can have skeptics on all sides of a question.  (Never - never - only two sides to a question.)  They can all have reasons true to skepticism in its finest form for what they think.

I don't like debating how many skeptical-advocates, denialists, scofftics, acryptics and agnostocryptoids can dance on the pointed head of a sasquatch.  It stops us talking about search parameters for undocumented critters.

Which is, um, what this is about...?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And one must remember (just saw his post) mystery_man&#8217;s own description of his own history on crypto questions.</p>
<p>He was once as denialist as they come.  But he started adopting other angles.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t so much go for labels.  But I don&#8217;t like &#8220;skeptic&#8221; being used the way cryptos use it.  You can have skeptics on all sides of a question.  (Never - never - only two sides to a question.)  They can all have reasons true to skepticism in its finest form for what they think.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t like debating how many skeptical-advocates, denialists, scofftics, acryptics and agnostocryptoids can dance on the pointed head of a sasquatch.  It stops us talking about search parameters for undocumented critters.</p>
<p>Which is, um, what this is about&#8230;?
</p>
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		<title>by: DWA</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/woo/#comment-30865</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 15:25:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/woo/#comment-30865</guid>
					<description>Judaculla says:

"I don’t like the word skeptic either. Using skeptic implies that advocates of the possibility of a zoological explanation behind the sasquatch phenomenon are not skeptical. Skeptical advocate is not an oxymoron."

Actually, I like the word, and for precisely the above reason.  OK, sort of.

What I see is "skeptic" being given a meaning IT DOES NOT HAVE.  The chief advocates for the sasquatch are skeptics.  They evaluate evidence with a jaundiced eye.  While they may occasionally overstep, and pronounce unwarranted conclusions, they are, primarily, skeptics when it comes to this question.  They seek evidence; when they find it, they evaluate it for quality and decide what, if anything, can be done with it.  I think that the above comment that everyone's a skeptic, on something or other, is worth thinking about here.  We're pigeonholing that word, and giving it a nastiness and opprobrium it doesn't possess.

The JREF folks (just go there if you don't believe me) do not warrant the term  skeptic.  What they are, at least what they are on crypto questions  - whether it's given a one-word description or not matters nil to me - is something not really worth the time it takes to wade through it.

Their position is "if you take this position - which we are demonstrably in no position to criticize, one way or the other - you are a fool."

That's not skepticism.  That's belief, dogma.  The Spanish Inquisition was similar, if yeah, a lot nastier.  JREF can simply be dismissed.  I'm not sure it does crypto any good to even give these guys any time at all.  Let 'em play in their own pen.  Who needs it here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Judaculla says:</p>
<p>&#8220;I don’t like the word skeptic either. Using skeptic implies that advocates of the possibility of a zoological explanation behind the sasquatch phenomenon are not skeptical. Skeptical advocate is not an oxymoron.&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, I like the word, and for precisely the above reason.  OK, sort of.</p>
<p>What I see is &#8220;skeptic&#8221; being given a meaning IT DOES NOT HAVE.  The chief advocates for the sasquatch are skeptics.  They evaluate evidence with a jaundiced eye.  While they may occasionally overstep, and pronounce unwarranted conclusions, they are, primarily, skeptics when it comes to this question.  They seek evidence; when they find it, they evaluate it for quality and decide what, if anything, can be done with it.  I think that the above comment that everyone&#8217;s a skeptic, on something or other, is worth thinking about here.  We&#8217;re pigeonholing that word, and giving it a nastiness and opprobrium it doesn&#8217;t possess.</p>
<p>The JREF folks (just go there if you don&#8217;t believe me) do not warrant the term  skeptic.  What they are, at least what they are on crypto questions  - whether it&#8217;s given a one-word description or not matters nil to me - is something not really worth the time it takes to wade through it.</p>
<p>Their position is &#8220;if you take this position - which we are demonstrably in no position to criticize, one way or the other - you are a fool.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not skepticism.  That&#8217;s belief, dogma.  The Spanish Inquisition was similar, if yeah, a lot nastier.  JREF can simply be dismissed.  I&#8217;m not sure it does crypto any good to even give these guys any time at all.  Let &#8216;em play in their own pen.  Who needs it here?
</p>
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		<title>by: mystery_man</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/woo/#comment-30863</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 15:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/woo/#comment-30863</guid>
					<description>I have no problem with using the word "scoftic" where it fits and I'd have to say that this guy ranting about cryptozoologists being stupid is a prime example of what I consider to be a scoftic. Just one way denialism without any rational justification or alternative hypothesis put forth. Anyone remember that scoftic thread that was running awhile back? That term is useful in cases where you want to describe a guy like the one ranting about cryptozoology in the previous thread and I feel a word is needed so that people know what others are talking about when they want to convey this type of person in their conversations.  People here who know my posts know that I always try to maintain civility, and I don't necesarily mean scoftic as anything other than a word to label this type of person. I see what people mean about civility starting with us, but at the same time, it's a two way street. I do feel there needs to be a word for those who irrationally attack others theories and ideas, so if scoftic is so offensive to them, let them come up with a term that they feel would be better. For now, they are scoftics to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no problem with using the word &#8220;scoftic&#8221; where it fits and I&#8217;d have to say that this guy ranting about cryptozoologists being stupid is a prime example of what I consider to be a scoftic. Just one way denialism without any rational justification or alternative hypothesis put forth. Anyone remember that scoftic thread that was running awhile back? That term is useful in cases where you want to describe a guy like the one ranting about cryptozoology in the previous thread and I feel a word is needed so that people know what others are talking about when they want to convey this type of person in their conversations.  People here who know my posts know that I always try to maintain civility, and I don&#8217;t necesarily mean scoftic as anything other than a word to label this type of person. I see what people mean about civility starting with us, but at the same time, it&#8217;s a two way street. I do feel there needs to be a word for those who irrationally attack others theories and ideas, so if scoftic is so offensive to them, let them come up with a term that they feel would be better. For now, they are scoftics to me.
</p>
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		<title>by: Lyndon</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/woo/#comment-30835</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 06:49:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/woo/#comment-30835</guid>
					<description>"I also don’t like the term “believer” due to the connotations of faith, religion, and potentially zealotry. Daegling uses “advocate” in Bigfoot Exposed. If a label has to be used for semantic shorthand, I’m fine with that."

Proponent is another good one.  As to the usage of 'believer' that doesn't bother me. After all, 'believer' simply means "to accept as true".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I also don’t like the term “believer” due to the connotations of faith, religion, and potentially zealotry. Daegling uses “advocate” in Bigfoot Exposed. If a label has to be used for semantic shorthand, I’m fine with that.&#8221;</p>
<p>Proponent is another good one.  As to the usage of &#8216;believer&#8217; that doesn&#8217;t bother me. After all, &#8216;believer&#8217; simply means &#8220;to accept as true&#8221;.
</p>
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		<title>by: Lyndon</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/woo/#comment-30834</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 06:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/woo/#comment-30834</guid>
					<description>I have found JREF to be a haven for double standards and strange 'don't do unto us as we do unto you' type behaviour.

That's all I'll say on the matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have found JREF to be a haven for double standards and strange &#8216;don&#8217;t do unto us as we do unto you&#8217; type behaviour.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s all I&#8217;ll say on the matter.
</p>
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		<title>by: Judaculla</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/woo/#comment-30812</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 02:51:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/woo/#comment-30812</guid>
					<description>I've said this elsewhere... I'm fine with folks who are agnostic about the existence of sasquatch. If you are a strict empiricist (and that's a good thing in my mind), you might find the existing evidence to be ambiguous or even suggestive. However, you'll need more before accepting that such a species is real. Although my position has vacillated over time, that's the camp that I find myself in now.

I take issue with folks who dismiss things on an a priori basis (unless the idea being considered is logically impossible like married bachelors).  "Scoftic" implies cynicism and derision, and is not best for polite conversation.

I don't like the word skeptic either. Using skeptic implies that advocates of the possibility of a zoological explanation behind the sasquatch phenomenon are not skeptical.  Skeptical advocate is not an oxymoron.

Would crypto-agnostic be appropriate for those who don't dismiss the subject but are waiting for better evidence?  Agnocryptic?

For those who deny the possibility of cryptozoological creatures, I've used the term "acryptic," a parallel to atheistic. The term focuses on the notion that is being denied instead of the manner in which a person expresses their doubt.  In contrast, "scoftic" focuses on the manner, not the subject.

I've known no atheist who objected to the term, and some who used "atheist" to describe themselves.  Again, the focus is on the subject being doubted and not the manner.  No judgement or evaluation is implied in the term.  I don't think any atheist would care to be called infidel, blasphemer, or pagan.

I also don't like the term "believer" due to the connotations of faith, religion, and potentially zealotry.  Daegling uses "advocate" in Bigfoot Exposed.  If a label has to be used for semantic shorthand, I'm fine with that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve said this elsewhere&#8230; I&#8217;m fine with folks who are agnostic about the existence of sasquatch. If you are a strict empiricist (and that&#8217;s a good thing in my mind), you might find the existing evidence to be ambiguous or even suggestive. However, you&#8217;ll need more before accepting that such a species is real. Although my position has vacillated over time, that&#8217;s the camp that I find myself in now.</p>
<p>I take issue with folks who dismiss things on an a priori basis (unless the idea being considered is logically impossible like married bachelors).  &#8220;Scoftic&#8221; implies cynicism and derision, and is not best for polite conversation.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t like the word skeptic either. Using skeptic implies that advocates of the possibility of a zoological explanation behind the sasquatch phenomenon are not skeptical.  Skeptical advocate is not an oxymoron.</p>
<p>Would crypto-agnostic be appropriate for those who don&#8217;t dismiss the subject but are waiting for better evidence?  Agnocryptic?</p>
<p>For those who deny the possibility of cryptozoological creatures, I&#8217;ve used the term &#8220;acryptic,&#8221; a parallel to atheistic. The term focuses on the notion that is being denied instead of the manner in which a person expresses their doubt.  In contrast, &#8220;scoftic&#8221; focuses on the manner, not the subject.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve known no atheist who objected to the term, and some who used &#8220;atheist&#8221; to describe themselves.  Again, the focus is on the subject being doubted and not the manner.  No judgement or evaluation is implied in the term.  I don&#8217;t think any atheist would care to be called infidel, blasphemer, or pagan.</p>
<p>I also don&#8217;t like the term &#8220;believer&#8221; due to the connotations of faith, religion, and potentially zealotry.  Daegling uses &#8220;advocate&#8221; in Bigfoot Exposed.  If a label has to be used for semantic shorthand, I&#8217;m fine with that.
</p>
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		<title>by: mystery_man</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/woo/#comment-30810</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 02:47:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/woo/#comment-30810</guid>
					<description>I'm rubber and you're glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m rubber and you&#8217;re glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you.
</p>
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		<title>by: jayman</title>
		<link>http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/woo/#comment-30807</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 01:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/woo/#comment-30807</guid>
					<description>Though I consider myself a skeptic, I too have gotten disenchanted with the hard-core CSICOP type of skeptic. Too cocksure, smug and mocking. And that type of skepticism is invariably ideologically driven, not a method or way of looking at data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though I consider myself a skeptic, I too have gotten disenchanted with the hard-core CSICOP type of skeptic. Too cocksure, smug and mocking. And that type of skepticism is invariably ideologically driven, not a method or way of looking at data.
</p>
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