I don’t know if it’s the same creature or related to the creature in Lochness (exceptional would be a long necked pinniped.) The Lochness creature I think it can be a Microcleidus or a plesiosaur or new species of Microcleidus/plesiosaur. It’s in the plesiosaur suborder. Lots of sea creatures have long neck with large bodies. Microcleidus seems to have a huge fat body with flippers. Plus the suppose plesiosaur carcass doesn’t have a long neck like most plesiosaur do. Don’t know if it was a young one, but could be a type of long neck species with a shorter neck then most plesiosaur. Like the Microcleidus, or a Rhomaleosaurus.

They said this creature was serpentine like, then a pinniped might not be the case. They do not look serpentine. At least from what I know. Although, Lake Champ and Lochness could inhabit more than one different long necked and/or prehistoric creature that was suppose to be extinct. The creature that washed ashore on Monterey Bay, California in 1925 had a fat head compared to fossils of plesiosaur. Not all animals go fossilized so some of these sightings can very well be unknown animals with long necks.

The lake van video is another example of what I’m trying to say. Not all creatures can be plesiosaur! It’s either unknown to fossil records or known to fossil records.. I think this creature in the lake van video is some type of short necked animal (example: Kronosaurus, etc.).

The animal people are reporting is not a Plesiosaur. Plesiosaurs were air breathers. This combined with the numbers required for a breeding population means they would be seen frequently surfacing to breath. Just sayin’

@springheeledjack, good point about the fossil record, we have about 4 percent of the fossil record. Fossils don’t form easily since the body need specific conditions to fossilize. Just because it isn’t in the record, doesn’t mean it can’t exist.

If Champ exists I’d put my money on a long necked pinniped, or a cetacean. There are fossil whales in the Lake Champlain basin. It used to be an ocean. Apparently they also have seal fossils as well.

Fossils in general in the Basin.

The point is, it certainly is possible that a plesiosaur could live in cold water. I understand the nature of the Antarctic at the time period of the dinosaurs, but the bones were found in a place and time that was cold. As to the bird bones…doesn’t mean they were birds, but that they were most likely descended from birds and evolved to their environment. Whales at one time lived on land and then moved back to the water…same principle. And to say that a plesiosaur as the culprit is impossible is the wrong way to approach it too–we know very little about them–it’s just come to light from the one fossil sample that plesiosaurs gave birth to live young, something we didn’t know before.

As for the long necked pinnipeds, yeah they haven’t been discovered in the fossil record, but the fossil record is not even close to complete. A long necked pinniped may well not exist, but again, it’s a possibility and one that I think came about as a way to explain how a long necked critter could survive in places like Ness and Champlain.

Personally, I don’t think it’s a plesiosaur either…however, I’m of the mind that it is certainly something with a long neck and head that resembles a plesiosaur, at least in shape and design. Whether it’s something evolved from ancient plesiosaurs, a critter we haven’t discovered in the fossil record yet, or maybe something closer to home we hadn’t thought of, I don’t know. I continually look through evidence and the information we do have on reptiles, mammals and dinosaurs trying to wrap my head around it. We can probably discuss this back and forth for months, but in the end, unfortunately, we’re probably gonna need a body before we can get the real truth.

Classification wise, they do not have dinosaurian features. Which means they are marine reptiles and are Non-archosaurian (dinosaurs are archosaurs like crocodiles) like mosasaurs.

Here is a link on cladistics and the classification of Plesiosaurs.

Here is the break down of necessary features of sauropterygians, from plesiosauria.com.

” * Single (upper) supratemporal fenestra (the lower temporal fenestra was lost – an excavated cheek margin is a remnant in many taxa)
* Closed palate of which the pterygoids cover the basis cranii (brain case) ventrally.
* lack of the following bones of the skull supratemporal, postparietal, and tabular (and lachrimal?).
* retracted nares – situated close to the orbit rather than on the snout tip.
* large retroarticular process on the mandible
* three to six sacral vertebrae
* lack of [ossified] sternum (maybe this was a cartilaginous element).
* divided scapulocoracoid
* pectoral and thyroid fenestration scapula lies superficially to the clavicle (i.e. the posterior part of the clavicle overlies the anterior part of the scapula)
* small ilium
* humerus lacks ectepicondylar foramen”

Here is a break down of dinosaurian features from Wikipedia.

“* in the skull, a supratemporal fossa (excavation) is present in front of the supratemporal fenestra
* epipophyses present in anterior neck vertebrae (except atlas and axis)
* apex of deltopectoral crest (a projection on which the deltopectoral muscles attach) located at or more than 30% down the length of the humerus (upper arm bone)
* radius shorter than 80% of humerus length
* fourth trochanter (projection where the caudofemoralis muscle attaches) on the femur (thigh bone) is a sharp flange
* fourth trochanter asymmetrical, with distal margin forming a steeper angle to the shaft
* on the astragalus and calcaneum the proximal articular facet for fibula occupies less than 30% of the transverse width of the element
* exocciptials (bones at the back of the skull) do not meet along the midline on the floor of the endocranial cavity
* proximal articular surfaces of the ischium with the ilium and the pubis separated by a large concave surface
* cnemial crest on the tibia (shinbone) arcs anterolaterally
• distinct proximodistally oriented ridge present on the posterior face of the distal end of the tibia “

I know this all can be confusing, cladistics is often a headache in the making and always changing. But it’s been pretty certain, based on features, marine reptiles are not dinosaurs they evolved from different evolutionary ancestors than dinosaurs.

Now with that said, it doesn’t mean the critters weren’t warm blooded. Sharks like Makos and Great Whites as well as Tuna are. They have organs called retia mirabilia (the dark meat on a turn stake) that helps to regulate temperature with muscle movement.

Also marine animals like the leather back turtles are gigantotherms, which means their warmbloodness comes from size. It’s likely that Plesiosaurs were closer to gigantotherms because they are not fish like the mackrel sharks, and tuna.

Now, I’m not sure about the ABC video, I’m a bring on the body kind of gal. Is it scientifically possible for a plesiosaur to still be alive today? It is possible, anything is, but I think we need more than a few sonar readings, rumors/stories/conspiracy theories, and photos to show that champ is a living plesiosaur and NOT a surgeon.

Now with that said, the kid in me squees at the idea of a living plesiosaur, I’d love it to be true just because it would be awesome.

I really do not think that they saw something in the water right then and were trying to tape it, they probably just noticed it as they were watching it back.

My 2 cents.